---
ga: 331
title: "How Should Socialization Arise? I"
date: 1919-05-08
location: Stuttgart
words: 1427
---
# Workers' Councils

## GA 331a — 8 May 1919, Stuttgart

### How Should Socialization Arise? I

*Initial discussion with representatives of the Greater Stuttgart Workers' Council*

SOURCE INFORMATION: There are no minutes of this meeting, only a few keywords recorded by Rudolf Steiner in his notebook. The present text is an attempt at reconstruction based on these keywords and should therefore be regarded as incomplete and only partially authentic. The documents used are printed in Appendix I. The text passages taken from these notes are italicized in the present text.

Comrade Dorfner asks those present to comment on the question of how the path to socialization could be taken in concrete terms. He asks them to comment at the same time on the ideas presented by Rudolf Steiner in yesterday's lecture.

Comrade Mössel: Yesterday's meeting clearly showed that the timing for the overthrow of the capitalist order must be defined even more clearly. If we summarize the essence of yesterday's discussion, it became clear from everything that the problem is the monetary economy. The determination to initiate the transition to socialization must come from the works councils.

Comrade Lohrmann: There is a lot of uncertainty about what can be done with the current capitalists. We do not know whether they will adhere to the agreements that have been concluded. Dr. Steiner's lectures must not be used to dampen the fighting spirit of the proletariat.

Comrade Dorfner: That is not the point, and we can see that when we think of the various model companies run by anthroposophists.

Comrade Benzinger: Let's take the example of the Waldorf Astoria cigarette factory. Although many things are very nicely arranged there, mistrust of the manufacturers remains. There are even people who claim that, from a social point of view, the anthroposophists' businesses are among the worst in Stuttgart. Unfortunately, I could give you various examples, but I would like to pick out one of them. In the second lecture, the Unger company was mentioned. The problem at Unger is the master craftsman. They are strictly conservative there, the business is organized in a very military fashion, and anyone who disagrees...! In any case, three, four, or even five men were recently dismissed by the Unger company.

Comrade Mössel: It is true that the wages paid at Waldorf-Astoria are rather poor. But I have seen something in this company that is very good. The cigarettes are still made by hand there. And the fact is, you have to keep people busy, otherwise the idealist in them will go to waste. The facilities at Waldorf-Astoria are exemplary in many respects. And as far as the Unger factory is concerned, the workers really do sometimes deserve a beating. When disputes arise, the fault usually lies with both sides. Much of it is a question of a lack of education. That's why there are always problems in this company. The foreman often finds it difficult to give clear orders.

A first comrade: If fundamental changes are to be made, the groundwork must be laid in the workers' committees. It can only lead to ruin if capable entrepreneurs like Unger are put in a tight spot. At Waldorf-Astoria, the workers are generally satisfied, and ultimately this is also the case at Unger.

Now something else concerning the latest cost-of-living allowance: due to the strike, it was not paid out at the right time. This is unfortunate, because the allowance should definitely have been paid out on February 24, due to the increasingly expensive cost of living.

Another comrade: With all these details, we must not forget the current issue of works councils. Bosch already has works councils, but it has become apparent that the works council system can only really be effective through socialization. And regarding socialization itself, it must be decided whether compensation for entrepreneurs

52 or simply a transfer without compensation, as the company stands today. Concrete ideas must be developed on how socialism can be realized. One thing is clear regarding the desired upheaval: it can only be achieved through an act of violence.

Comrade Lohrmann: But for that to happen, the socialist program must be carried to the masses.

Another comrade: I read a letter from a man who advocates the threefold social order. To me, such a person is a dreamer who has understood nothing at all. Even after Rudolf Steiner's lecture, I still wasn't really clear what he meant exactly by his threefold social order. But then, during the discussion, some things became clear to me. Yesterday, in the workers' council, I realized what people really want to know: they want to know what means are needed to overthrow the state. As far as I am concerned, I believe that if we want something truly new, we must know how to build it.

My question in this context is as follows: Today's state is everything that constitutes power in a society. So if a collapse occurs, not everyone will immediately be economically equal. There will be a political parliament where everyone is equal, but in economic terms, people will not be equal at all. In order to achieve this equality as soon as possible, works councils should be introduced today.

Comrade Lohrmann speaks again.

Comrade Hüttelmeyer: I would like to mention the example of the machine factory in Esslingen. Many residents there have never heard of works councils. Half of them are bourgeois, or at least bourgeois-oriented. That was true yesterday, but today there are not so many bourgeois-minded people. After all, there are still about 50 civil servants living in this town.

Now the general manager has called a works meeting because, for economic reasons, the plant must be shut down immediately. The question now is what will happen to the workers. Can't the business simply continue, especially since the state owns shares in the stock capital? Simply writing off these state shares is not an option. The company is taking the easy way out by simply saying there is no money in the coffers. There must be clear ideas about how such a business could be taken over and continued by

the works councils could take over and continue to run it.

Comrade Lohrmann: We must follow events very closely and not simply become complacent now after the revolution. Whether a redistribution of capital can be achieved depends on our determination. The workers must resist the machinations of the capitalists; they must strike, and for that they need money from the central treasury.

Comrade Mössel: But we must not forget one thing: a business that is impractical and therefore unproductive will not be able to exist in a socialist order in the future either. We must be clear about this: money is not harmful in and of itself. Piecework is also not really harmful, just as money is not simply harmful. As far as its purchasing power is concerned, the metal value is no longer a factor today.

Comrade Beine: It seems to me that there has not yet been sufficient clarity regarding the implementation of socialization. The question that has been at the forefront up to now has been: How do we gain political power? The question of socialization has always been viewed from this party standpoint. But if the working class continues to stand on the ground of class struggle, the capitalist circles will not agree to the socialization of factories and enterprises.

The first comrade: The most important thing is the future structure of society, and that is where the idea of social threefolding comes in. The need for an idea for the restructuring of society—that is the factor that must be taken into account.

Another comrade: There are several questions that arise at the moment. What matters now is that we achieve a truly social order in Germany. We must ask ourselves how far the influence of ideas such as threefold social order has reached, how much they have affected people so far. Let us look at recent events, for example the ongoing peace negotiations – what is really new there? If we think only of the establishment of a dictatorship of the proletariat, what will become of Germany? Russia is a cautionary example!

Comrade Roser: It is the question of capital formation, of ownership of capital, that we must absolutely consider, because that is the central

point when it comes to socialization.

[Rudolf Steiner comments on the questions raised in the discussion.

It is decided to continue the discussion as soon as possible in view of the urgency of the issues raised.