{"corpus":"steiner","locus":"GA 140/1913-10-10/p018","lang":"en","edition":"English","edition_basis":null,"is_original":false,"is_default_edition":true,"text":"Here I may perhaps tell you incidentally something of a being, a deceased human soul with whom, because it knew much, I have been able to make investigations in the spiritual world concerning the great painter Leonardo da Vinci, and especially as regards his celebrated picture of the Last Supper in Milan. When one investigates a spiritual fact in cooperation with such a soul as this, it can point to many a fact that one might not discern simply by clairvoyant vision into the Akashic Records. The human soul in the spiritual world can indicate these, but can only do so to an investigator who has understanding of the things it wishes to point out. Suppose, together with such a soul, one investigates the way in which Leonardo painted the world-renowned “Last Supper!” What remains of that picture today is hardly more than a few specks of colour, but in the Akashic Records one can watch Leonardo at work and can perceive, although it is none too easy, what the picture was then like. If one is able thus to investigate, in company with a soul not in incarnation but who has a connection with Leonardo da Vinci and studies his paintings, one observes that this soul points out this or that. For instance, it may make one realise the actual faces of Christ and Judas on the canvas. Yet one becomes aware that the soul could not do this unless, at the time of showing, there was the necessary understanding on the part of the living investigator. This is a *sine qua non.* The discarnate soul itself only learns to understand what till now it could only perceive, during the time the living soul is being willingly taught. Thus a soul with whom one has had such an experience—which can only be experienced in the above-mentioned way—says to one, symbolically speaking of course: “You have brought me here to this picture. Because you yourself felt the need of investigating the picture, I on my part felt the impulse to look at it with you!” After that follow various experiences, but the time comes when the soul either vanishes or says: “Now I must go.” In the case to which I am referring the dead soul said: “Up to now the soul of Leonardo da Vinci was quite willing to have the picture seen, but it does not now wish the investigation carried farther.”","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"title":"Lecture I","site_heading":"Living Intercourse with the Dead Through Spiritual Science","site_heading_note":"A heading the site wrote for this unit from a summary of it; not in the edition, and not the words of Rudolf Steiner or of the translator. Cite the unit by its title and locus, never by this heading, and do not quote it.","date":"1913-10-10","location":null,"word_count":404,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/140/1913-10-10/p018","alignment_confidence":"medium","alignment_reason":"beads:length","two_voice_volume":false,"translation_credit":{"scope":"unit","status":"established","translator":"Henry Collison","identified_edition":"APC1928","book_title":"Descriptive Sketches of the Spiritual World","publisher":"Anthroposophical Publishing Co.","publisher_inferred":true,"match_score":1.0,"source_url":"https://www.rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA140/English/APC1928/19131010p02.html","evidence":"lecture_list_row","note":"rsarchive's lecture list spells the credit 'Harry Collison'; the lecture pages of this edition print 'Henry Collison', which is served.","publisher_note":"The publisher is inferred from the edition code in this lecture's source URL, not stated by the source page. The translator IS verified for this lecture: its own source names the translator (evidence: the lecture's page, rsarchive's lecture list, or the cover of the book it was published in), and that page's text was matched against this unit (see match_score and source_url). Cite the translator with confidence; attribute the publisher only as probable."},"edition_coverage":{"de":["original"],"en":["English"]},"available_versions":[{"lang":"de","edition":"original","edition_basis":null,"is_original":true,"is_default_edition":true,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/140/1913-10-10/p018"},{"lang":"en","edition":"English","edition_basis":null,"is_original":false,"is_default_edition":true,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/140/1913-10-10/p018","paragraph_aligned":true}],"record":{"record_type":"unknown","scope":"volume","note":"How this text was taken down (shorthand transcript, listeners' notes or manuscript) is not on record here. Unknown is not an assurance of a stenogram: check the edition's own notes before resting an argument on one word.","evidence":null,"evidence_translation":null,"evidence_source":null},"other_renderings":{"loci":[{"locus":"GA 140/1913-10-10_02","ga":"140","lecture":"1913-10-10_02","kind":"renderings","relation":"another translation or transcription of the same lecture"}],"note":"The same lecture is also served at the loci listed, each with how it relates to this one. They are ONE witness, not independent attestations: quote the rendering you fetched, and do not cite another as corroborating it. Wording differs between translations, so a quotation found in one need not occur in the other."},"german_anchor":{"de_prefix":"1913-10-10","de_passages":[{"locus":"GA 140/1913-10-10/p019","url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/140/1913-10-10/p019"}],"bead_confidence":"medium","pairing_state":"proposed","verified":false,"length_check":{"de_words":498,"en_words":469,"ratio":0.94,"partial":false},"correspondence":"established","note":"English passage numbering is edition-relative, so the same number need not name the same paragraph in the German. The German original passage(s) above are the edition-invariant anchor — fetch them (lang='de') to verify wording before quoting across editions."},"paired_german":{"status":"paired","german":[{"locus":"GA 140/1913-10-10/p019","passage_number":19,"text":"Und wenn wir nun die geistigen Welten selber betreten und ein wenig dieses Leben in den geistigen Welten erfahren, dann treten uns da ganz andere Verhältnisse entgegen als hier im physischen Leben der Erde. Deshalb ist es auch so außerordentlich schwierig, in Menschenworten und Menschengedanken hereinzuholen diese Verhältnisse der geistigen Welten. Und es klingt manchmal so paradox, wenn man versucht, sich konkret auszusprechen über die Verhältnisse in den geistigen Welten. Sehen Sie, da wüßte ich Ihnen von einem Wesen zu erzählen, um nur eines herauszugreifen, von einer gestorbenen Menschenseele, mit der zusammen es mir gelungen ist, einiges zu erforschen in der geistigen Welt, weil sie besondere Kunde von ihm hatte, über den Maler Lionardo da Vinci, namentlich über dasjenige, wie das berühmte Bild in Mailand ausgesehen hat. Wenn man mit einer solchen Seele gemeinschaftlich eine geistige Tatsache durchsucht, da kann einen eine solche Seele auf manches hinweisen, was man sonst vielleicht durch den bloßen hellsichtigen Blick nicht finden würde in der Akasha-Chronik. Die Menschenseele aber, die in der geistigen Welt ist, kann darauf hinweisen. Sie wird einen aber nur dann hinweisen können, wenn man Verständnis hat für dasjenige, worauf sie einen hinweisen will. Da stellt sich etwas Eigentümliches heraus. Nehmen wir an, man erforscht mit einer solchen Seele die Art, wie geschaffen hat Lionardo da Vinci sein berühmtes Abendmahl in Mailand. Von dem, was heute dieses Bild ist, bekommt man kaum viel mehr zu sehen als einige Farbenflecken. Aber man kann den malenden Lionardo in der Akasha-Chronik beobachten, kann beobachten, wie dieses Bild war, obwohl das nicht leicht ist. Wenn man es so macht, daß man mit einer Seele, die nicht verkörpert ist, aber einen Zusammenhang hat mit Lionardo da Vinci und seiner Malerei, forscht, so sieht man, daß diese Seele einem dies oder jenes zeigt. Sie konnte zum Beispiel verständlich machen, wie eigentlich das Christusgesicht und das Judasgesicht waren auf diesem Bilde. Aber man merkt, die Seele könnte einem das nicht zeigen, wenn nicht in dem Augenblicke, wo sie es zeigt, Verständnis einziehen würde in die Seele des lebenden Forschers. Dieses Verständnis braucht die Seele. Und die tote Seele lernt selber erst verstehen, was sie sonst nur anschaut, in dem Augenblick, wo die lebende Menschenseele sich belehren läßt. Daher sagt einem, der Ausdruck ist ja symbolisch, eine solche Seele, nachdem man etwas mit ihr zusammen erfahren hat, was man nur so erfahren kann: Du hast mich hierher gebracht zu dem Bilde — das sagt die Seele zum Lebenden dadurch, daß der Lebende das Bedürfnis hatte, das Bild zu erforschen — und nun fühle ich den Drang, mit dir zusammen das Bild zu erschauen. — So sagt die tote Seele, und dann wird mancherlei durchgemacht. Aber es kommt ein Moment, wo die tote Seele entweder plötzlich nicht mehr da ist oder sagt, jetzt müsse sie fort. In diesem Falle, den ich eben erzähle, sagte die tote Seele zum Beispiel: Während Lionardo da Vincis Seele bis jetzt wohlgefällig hierher gesehen hat, will sie jetzt nicht mehr, daß weitergeforscht werde.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":498,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/140/1913-10-10/p019"}],"english":["GA 140/1913-10-10/p017","GA 140/1913-10-10/p018"],"method":"length","confidence":"medium","correspondence":"established","length_check":{"de_words":498,"en_words":469,"ratio":0.94,"partial":false},"pairing_state":"proposed","verified":false},"witness_completeness":{"ratio":0.94,"band":"comparable","note":null,"word_count":6352,"original_word_count":6736,"may_be_abridged":false},"witness_quality":{"translator":{"scope":"unit","status":"recorded","translator":"Henry Collison","identified_edition":"APC1928","book_title":"Descriptive Sketches of the Spiritual World","publisher":"Anthroposophical Publishing Co.","publisher_inferred":true,"match_score":1.0,"source_url":"https://www.rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA140/English/APC1928/19131010p02.html","evidence":"lecture_list_row","note":"rsarchive's lecture list spells the credit 'Harry Collison'; the lecture pages of this edition print 'Henry Collison', which is served.","publisher_note":"The publisher is inferred from the edition code in this lecture's source URL, not stated by the source page. The translator IS verified for this lecture: its own source names the translator (evidence: the lecture's page, rsarchive's lecture list, or the cover of the book it was published in), and that page's text was matched against this unit (see match_score and source_url). Cite the translator with confidence; attribute the publisher only as probable."},"entity_parity":{"status":"ok","checked_against":["GA 140/1913-10-10/p019"],"missing_from_translation":[],"present_only_in_translation":[],"bead_confidence":"medium","note":"Every load-bearing name in the German counterpart appears in this English passage. That is a check on NAMES only: a translation can keep every name and still reverse who acts on whom, change a number, or soften a claim. Read the German for anything you intend to rest an argument on."},"note":"quote_safe certifies the bytes of this text. This block is about the translation as a WITNESS: who made it, and whether it carries the same names as the original. See witness_completeness for how much of the original this witness holds."}}