{"corpus":"steiner","locus":"GA 165/1915-12-28/p005-p010","extent":"range","passage_number":5,"through":10,"paragraph_count":6,"first_locus":"GA 165/1915-12-28/p005","last_locus":"GA 165/1915-12-28/p010","lang":"en","edition":"English","edition_basis":null,"is_original":false,"is_default_edition":true,"title":"The Problem of Jesus & Christ in Earlier Times","date":"1915-12-28","location":null,"alignment_confidence":"high","alignment_reason":"beads:length","two_voice_volume":false,"translation_credit":{"scope":"unit","status":"not_established","translator":null,"identified_edition":"Singles","book_title":"The Ancient Christmas Plays and a Forgotten Spiritual Current in Humanity","publisher":null,"publisher_inferred":false,"match_score":1.0,"source_url":"https://www.rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA165/English/Singles/19151228p01.html","evidence":null,"reason":"no_translator_named","note":"Neither the lecture's own page nor rsarchive's lecture list names a translator for it. 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But this form of knowledge, as we said, had disappeared.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":108,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/165/1915-12-28/p006","german_anchor":{"de_prefix":"1915-12-28","de_passages":[],"bead_confidence":"high","pairing_state":"proposed","verified":false,"correspondence":"unestablished","note":"NOT ALIGNED. The aligner could not pair this English passage with a German passage. This does NOT mean the German lacks the content — the English edition may merge or reorder what the German numbers separately. 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I stated that the announcement of Christ's coming was not itself a new revelation, made known through the Mystery of Golgotha; in the Mysteries, the Christ had already been mentioned as the “coming one.” There were special teachings in the Mysteries that proclaimed the coming of Christ. One viewed the Christ being, of course, in the light of a past spiritual wisdom, but these Mysteries had gradually degenerated, so that, when the Christ did come, people were less able than ever to speak, as human beings, about the Christ. This is evident not only from all that I have just explained, but also from what remained alive in the souls of those who tried to conceive of the Christ Mystery out of a fresh, new impulse.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":181,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/165/1915-12-28/p007","german_anchor":{"de_prefix":"1915-12-28","de_passages":[{"locus":"GA 165/1915-12-28/p004","url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/165/1915-12-28/p004"}],"bead_confidence":"high","pairing_state":"proposed","verified":false,"length_check":{"de_words":186,"en_words":181,"ratio":0.97,"partial":false},"correspondence":"established","note":"English passage numbering is edition-relative, so the same number need not name the same paragraph in the German. 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They could no longer comprehend how the ancient Gnosis had been able to understand the Christ, but they knew that he could be understood, as a spiritual being, only through spiritual faculties. This was what they knew about the Christ.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":155,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/165/1915-12-28/p008","german_anchor":{"de_prefix":"1915-12-28","de_passages":[{"locus":"GA 165/1915-12-28/p005","url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/165/1915-12-28/p005"}],"bead_confidence":"high","pairing_state":"proposed","verified":false,"length_check":{"de_words":280,"en_words":282,"ratio":1.01,"partial":false},"correspondence":"established","note":"English passage numbering is edition-relative, so the same number need not name the same paragraph in the German. 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The only ones who could reach him were those who had developed, through the Mysteries, forces that enabled them to leave the physical body. When human beings left their physical bodies through forces acquired in the Mysteries and ventured into the spiritual realms, they were able to recognize the Christ and felt that he was the “coming one.” Clemens of Alexandria knew this. He knew that the ancient Mysteries spoke of the Christ as the coming one, who was not yet united with earthly evolution. 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Nun müssen wir uns fragen: Kann ein Weisheitsgut, das vorhanden war, so ohne weiteres verschwinden? Kann es für ein solches Verschwinden nur äußere Gründe geben? Ich habe einen Vergleich gebraucht: Ich habe gesagt, daß der Fall denkbar wäre, daß alles dasjenige, was von uns nun gedruckt und geblieben ist, verbrannt würde, nur die gegnerischen Schriften blieben, aus denen man dann später nachkonstruieren könnte, was von uns gesagt worden ist. Nun gewiß, der Fall könnte eintreten. Aber so ganz ohne weiteres kann diese Hypothese eigentlich doch nicht aufgestellt werden. Denn denken Sie einmal, es würden wirklich die Schriften alle verschwinden, so würden noch viele von uns da sein — wenigstens kann man das annehmen -, die wissen, was in diesen Schriften steht, und die, ohne daß sie die gegnerischen Schriften brauchen, die Sache weiter mitteilen könnten, und so würde sich doch wohl können das Weisheitsgut fortpflanzen. Damit die Sache vollständig verschwände, wäre schon notwendig, daß in einer gewissen Weise nach und nach auch die Fähigkeiten verschwinden, um die Sache zu verstehen, die Sache zu behalten, um sie von Generation zu Generation fortzupflanzen. Das muß aber dazumal geschehen sein. Es muß sich dazumal in einer gewissen Weise das vollzogen haben, daß die Menschen die Fähigkeit verloren haben, so etwas zu verstehen, wie es die Gnosis des Valentinus ist, wie es der Inhalt der Pistis-Sophia-Schrift, wie es der Inhalt des Buches Jeû ist und so weiter. Und das ist auch wirklich so gewesen, Wir müssen uns durchaus vorstellen, daß sich auf der breiten Grundlage jenes alten Erbgutes, das sich in älteren Zeiten ausgelebt hat als das primitivste Hellsehen, dann allmählich abgeblüht und abgedämmert ist, auch ein höheres Erkennen ausgebildet hat, ein höheres Wissen, Geistwissen, das allerdings nur bei wenigen, in den Mysterien Ausgebildeten, gepflegt wurde, aber das doch im weiteren Umkreis vorhanden war. Und wir müssen uns weiter vorstellen, daß durch das allmähliche Lahmwerden der Fähigkeiten, solches zu begreifen, die ganze Sache nicht nur ins Vergessen, sondern ins Verschwinden gekommen ist. Die Menschen haben einfach nicht mehr die Fähigkeit gehabt, innerhalb der abendländischen Kultur so etwas zu verstehen. Dadurch konnte allein das, was Weisheitsgut war, verlorengehen. So daß wir wirklich sagen können: Indem wir auf die Zeit blicken, die dem Mysterium von Golgatha unmittelbar vorangegangen und nachgefolgt ist, sehen wir auf eine Zeit hin, wo im weitesten Umfange alte Fähigkeiten verschwinden und ganz aus dem Frischen, aus dem Neuen heraus gearbeitet wird. Man kann schon sagen: Es gab, als es so in der Menschheitsentwickelung gegen das Mysterium von Golgatha zuging, ein Herabdämmern, ein Verschwinden einer ganz eigenen Anschauung und Denkweise, die geistiger Art war, durch die man hätte das Hereinkommen des Christus in die Welt als eines Geistwesens begreifen können.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":507,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/165/1915-12-28/p003"},{"locus":"GA 165/1915-12-28/p004","passage_number":4,"text":"Also gerade zu der Zeit, in welcher der Christus sich mit der Erdenentwickelung verbindet, verschwindet das Wissen, durch das im eigentlichen, tieferen Sinne die Natur und Wesenheit dieses Christus hätte begriffen werden können. Das ist eine wichtige Tatsache. Ich habe auch schon bei verschiedenen Stellen unserer Betrachtungen auf eines, was sehr bedeutsam ist, hingewiesen. Ich habe gesagt: Die Christus-Verkündigung als solche ist nicht etwas, was etwa mit dem Ereignis von Golgatha so ganz neu ist. Nein, in den Mysterien wurde schon von dem Christus als dem Kommenden gesprochen. Es gab Lehren in den Mysterien, daß der Christus kommen werde. Man faßte diese Christus-Wesenheit so auf, wie es eben im Sinne der verschwundenen Geistesweisheit ist. Aber diese Mysterien waren allmählich zerfallen, so daß gerade, als der Christus kam, die Zeit herannahte, in der man am wenigsten als Mensch geeignet war, über diesen Christus zu sprechen. Das sieht man nicht nur an allem, worauf ich jetzt schon hingedeutet habe, sondern das sieht man auch an dem, was übriggeblieben ist bei Menschen, die sich nun wie aus dem Frischen, aus dem Neuen heraus eine Vorstellung des Christus-Geheimnisses machen wollen.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":186,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/165/1915-12-28/p004"},{"locus":"GA 165/1915-12-28/p005","passage_number":5,"text":"Da haben wir gleich in den ersten Jahrhunderten der christlichen Entwickelung solche großen Geister, wie zum Beispiel Clemens von Alexandrien und Origenes, zwei eminente Geister. Wenn man sie von einem gewissen Standpunkte aus charakterisieren will, diesen Clemens von Alexandrien, der also auf die Gnostiker folgte, als die Gnosis schon herabgedämmert war, ebenso Origenes, dann muß man sagen, sie bestreben sich, zu erkennen: Wie ist es denn eigentlich mit diesem Mysterium von Golgatha? Wir haben es auf der einen Seite zu tun mit dem Christus — das wußten sie noch. Dieser Christus kann nur als ein Geistwesen begriffen werden, das mit dem Geistigen, mit den übersinnlichen Impulsen zu tun hat. Dieser Christus steigt herunter aus kosmischen Geistregionen. — Sie wußten nicht mehr ordentlich, wie die alte Gnosis den Christus hat begreifen können, aber sie wußten, er muß mit geistigen Fähigkeiten als ein Geistwesen begriffen werden. Das wußten sie von dem Christus. Auf der andern Seite war ihnen der Jesus eine historische Persönlichkeit. Eine geschichtliche Tatsache war ihnen das Erscheinen des Jesus. Es war vor so und so viel Jahren, sagten sie sich, in einem gewissen Teile Vorderasiens eine Persönlichkeit geboren worden, Jesus, die der Christus-Träger war, ein Mensch, in dem der Gott anwesend war. Das wurde für sie die Rätselfrage. Wir haben es zu tun in der geschichtlichen Entwickelung mit einer historischen Persönlichkeit, so sagten sie sich, wir haben es zu tun im Geistbegreifen mit dem Christus. Wie sollte man sich das Vereinigtsein der beiden denken? Und bei so eminenten, bei so großen Geistern, wie Clemens von Alexandrien, wie Origenes es sind, sehen wir ein Ringen, ein Kämpfen damit: begreifen zu können, wie der Christus in dem Jesus ist, darin ist.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":280,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/165/1915-12-28/p005"},{"locus":"GA 165/1915-12-28/p006","passage_number":6,"text":"Wenn wir zunächst auf Clemens von Alexandrien hinsehen, welcher der Katechetenschule von Alexandrien vorstand, wo diejenigen ausgebildet wurden, die zu christlichen Lehrern gehalten und gemacht werden sollten, wenn wir hinsehen auf diese bedeutsame Persönlichkeit, so finden wir unter dem, was diese Persönlichkeit lehrt, etwa das Folgende. Clemens von Alexandrien sagte sich: Der Christus gehört unter diejenigen Kräfte, die schon bei der Schöpfung der Erde tätig waren, selbstverständlich, er gehört der geistigen Welt an. Er ist durch den Leib des Jesus von Nazareth in die Erdenentwickelung eingetreten. So also richtete Clemens von Alexandrien seinen Blick zunächst auf den Christus als das Geistwesen, suchte ihn zu begreifen in Geistregionen. Nun wußte Clemens von Alexandrien auch das Folgende, was wir auch öfter schon betont haben. Er wußte, der Christus war für die Menschen eigentlich immer da, aber nicht in der Erdenregion, sondern diejenigen konnten nur zu ihm gelangen, die Kräfte in sich entwickelten durch die Mysterien, vermöge welcher sie herauskommen konnten aus dem Leibe. Wenn sie, die Menschen, aus dem Leibe herauskamen durch die Mysterienkräfte und in die geistigen Regionen hineinkamen, so erkannten sie den Christus und sie empfanden ihn als denjenigen, der da kommen werde. Das wußte Clemens von Alexandrien. Er wußte, daß in den alten Mysterien von dem Christus als dem Kommenden, der noch nicht mit der Erdenentwickelung vereinigt ist, gesprochen worden ist. Das drückte er so aus: Gewiß, die Menschen wurden dazu inspiriert, den Christus zu erwarten. Und er ging so weit, daß er sagte: Namentlich an zwei Punkten der geistigen Menschheitsentwickelung wurde das gepflegt, was vorbereiten konnte für das Herabkommen des Christus. Clemens von Alexandrien sagte: Auf der einen Seite wurde es gepflegt durch Moses und die Propheten. Was durch Moses und die Propheten in die Welt kam, sagte er, das war eine Vorbereitung. Die Menschen sollten zuerst dasjenige erfahren, was durch Moses und die Propheten kam, damit sie dann mit Hilfe eines eigenen Empfindens ein Gefühl dafür haben können: Wir haben den Christus. Das sollten sie gerade vorstellen. Also von der alten gnostischen Weisheit wußte er nichts, oder wenigstens, er wandte sie nicht an. Aber von dem, was in die menschlichen Fähigkeiten gekommen ist durch Moses und die Propheten, von dem sagte er, daß es «Vorbereitung» ist. Und dann - das ist sehr bedeutsam - als ein Zweites, was vorbereiten sollte neben Moses und den Propheten, führte Clemens von Alexandrien die griechische Philosophie an: Plato und Aristoteles — die griechische Philosophie. Er sagte gleichsam: Moses und die Propheten und die griechische Philosophie sind dazu dagewesen, um die Menschen vorzubereiten auf das Ereignis, auf die Tatsache des Mysteriums von Golgatha.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":431,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/165/1915-12-28/p006"}],"beads":[{"from":[3,4,5],"to":[3],"confidence":"high","pairing_state":"proposed"},{"from":[6],"to":[],"confidence":"high","pairing_state":"proposed"},{"from":[7],"to":[4],"confidence":"high","pairing_state":"proposed"},{"from":[8,9],"to":[5],"confidence":"high","pairing_state":"proposed"},{"from":[10,11,12],"to":[6],"confidence":"high","pairing_state":"verified"}],"note":"Paired by the paragraph aligner; each language numbers its own paragraphs. A bead at either end of the span can carry text beyond it (the `from` numbers show what each bead covers).","unpaired":[6]}}