{"corpus":"steiner","locus":"GA 165/1916-01-16/p008","lang":"en","edition":"English","edition_basis":null,"is_original":false,"is_default_edition":true,"text":"This was the case with the Gnostics: they did not come to physical existence, to material existence. And if you now look at a person like Marcion, you see: for him there is a clear, a more or less clear concept of Christ, but he is absolutely unable to grasp how this Christ was contained in Jesus. Therefore, the whole process became etherealized for him. He managed to grasp the Christ as a spirit, as an ethereal being that seemingly took on a body. But he could not grasp the correct way in which the Christ was in Jesus. Marcion came to say, in the end, that Christ did indeed descend to earth, but that everything that Jesus experienced was only seemingly experienced; the physical events are only seemingly experienced; the Christ did not actually participate, but was only there like an ethereal entity, which, however, remained quite separate. That is why Tertullian had to turn against Marcion and against the others who thought similarly, Basilides for example. And for him the great riddle arose: How was the divine nature of Christ connected with the human nature of Jesus? What exactly was the God-man? What was the Son of God? What was the Son of Man? — Above all, he sought to clarify these concepts. And so he first formed a concept that was very important and is still important today, which one must understand if one wants to see how manifold the possibilities of error are for man.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"title":"Second Lecture","site_heading":"Bridging Clairvoyance and Reason: The Trinity's Emergence","site_heading_note":"A heading the site wrote for this unit from a summary of it; not in the edition, and not the words of Rudolf Steiner or of the translator. Cite the unit by its title and locus, never by this heading, and do not quote it.","date":"1916-01-16","location":null,"word_count":249,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/165/1916-01-16/p008","alignment_confidence":"high","alignment_reason":"beads:identity","two_voice_volume":false,"translation_credit":{"scope":"unit","status":"established","translator":"Steiner Online Library","identified_edition":"SOL2025","book_title":"The Conceptual World and Its Relationship to Reality","publisher":"Steiner Online Library","publisher_inferred":true,"match_score":1.0,"source_url":"https://www.rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA165/English/SOL2025/19160116p01.html","evidence":"lecture_page_line","publisher_note":"The publisher is inferred from the edition code in this lecture's source URL, not stated by the source page. The translator IS verified for this lecture: its own source names the translator (evidence: the lecture's page, rsarchive's lecture list, or the cover of the book it was published in), and that page's text was matched against this unit (see match_score and source_url). Cite the translator with confidence; attribute the publisher only as probable."},"edition_coverage":{"de":["original"],"en":["English"]},"available_versions":[{"lang":"de","edition":"original","edition_basis":null,"is_original":true,"is_default_edition":true,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/165/1916-01-16/p008"},{"lang":"en","edition":"English","edition_basis":null,"is_original":false,"is_default_edition":true,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/165/1916-01-16/p008","paragraph_aligned":true}],"record":{"record_type":"unknown","scope":"volume","note":"How this text was taken down (shorthand transcript, listeners' notes or manuscript) is not on record here. Unknown is not an assurance of a stenogram: check the edition's own notes before resting an argument on one word.","evidence":null,"evidence_translation":null,"evidence_source":null},"paired_german":{"status":"paired","german":[{"locus":"GA 165/1916-01-16/p008","passage_number":8,"text":"So war es bei den Gnostikern: sie kamen nicht zum physischen Dasein, zum materiellen Dasein. Und wenn man nun einen solchen Menschen wie Marcion betrachtet, so sieht man: für ihn ist ein klarer, ein mehr oder weniger klarer Christus-Begriff da, aber er kann durchaus nicht erfassen, wie dieser Christus in dem Jesus enthalten war. Daher ätherisierte sich ihm der ganze Prozeß. Er brachte es dahin, den Christus noch als Geist, als ätherisches Wesen zu fassen, das zum Schein einen Leib angenommen hat. Aber die richtige Art und Weise, wie der Christus in dem Jesus darin war, konnte er nicht fassen. Marcion kam dazu, zuletzt zu sagen — gerade er ist es, der dazu kam, zu sagen: Christus ist zwar auf die Erde herabgestiegen, aber alles, was der Jesus erlebt, war nur zum Schein erlebt; die physischen Ereignisse sind nur zum Schein erlebt; der Christus hat eigentlich nicht teilgenommen, sondern er war nur wie eine ätherische Wesenheit da, die aber ganz getrennt blieb. Deshalb mußte sich Tertullian gegen Marcion wenden, und gegen die andern, die ähnlich dachten, Basilides zum Beispiel. Und für ihn entstand die große Rätselfrage: Wie war die göttliche Natur des Christus mit der menschlichen Natur des Jesus verbunden? Was war eigentlich der Gottmensch? Was war der Gottessohn? Was war der Menschensohn? — Über diese Begriffe suchte er es vor allen Dingen zur Klarheit zu bringen. Und da bildete er sich zunächst einen Begriff aus, der sehr wichtig war, und der heute noch immer wichtig ist, den man verstehen muß, wenn man einsehen will, wie vielfach die Möglichkeiten des Irrtums für den Menschen sind.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":265,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/165/1916-01-16/p008"}],"english":["GA 165/1916-01-16/p008"],"method":"identity","confidence":"high","correspondence":"established","length_check":{"de_words":265,"en_words":249,"ratio":0.94,"partial":false},"pairing_state":"verified","verified":true,"evidence":["length","anchors","reader"],"reader_german":["GA 165/1916-01-16/p008"]},"witness_completeness":{"ratio":1.02,"band":"comparable","note":null,"word_count":9551,"original_word_count":9343,"may_be_abridged":false},"witness_quality":{"translator":{"scope":"unit","status":"recorded","translator":"Steiner Online Library","identified_edition":"SOL2025","book_title":"The Conceptual World and Its Relationship to Reality","publisher":"Steiner Online Library","publisher_inferred":true,"match_score":1.0,"source_url":"https://www.rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA165/English/SOL2025/19160116p01.html","evidence":"lecture_page_line","publisher_note":"The publisher is inferred from the edition code in this lecture's source URL, not stated by the source page. The translator IS verified for this lecture: its own source names the translator (evidence: the lecture's page, rsarchive's lecture list, or the cover of the book it was published in), and that page's text was matched against this unit (see match_score and source_url). Cite the translator with confidence; attribute the publisher only as probable."},"entity_parity":{"status":"ok","checked_against":["GA 165/1916-01-16/p008"],"missing_from_translation":[],"present_only_in_translation":[],"bead_confidence":"high","note":"Every load-bearing name in the German counterpart appears in this English passage. That is a check on NAMES only: a translation can keep every name and still reverse who acts on whom, change a number, or soften a claim. Read the German for anything you intend to rest an argument on."},"note":"quote_safe certifies the bytes of this text. This block is about the translation as a WITNESS: who made it, and whether it carries the same names as the original. 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