{"corpus":"steiner","locus":"GA 165/1916-01-16/p022","lang":"en","edition":"English","edition_basis":null,"is_original":false,"is_default_edition":true,"text":"Now, someone like Marcion, from his Lucifer-infected gnosis, said: A god cannot undergo the process of becoming human and so forth that takes place here on earth, because a god must be subject to different laws that belong to the spiritual world. He did not find the connection between the spiritual and the material, the sensual. Now there was a debate about this, which no longer existed – Marcion is only externally, physically, recognizable from his opponents, for example from Tertullian – that the whole external physical story of Jesus of Nazareth would not be appropriate for the divine world order; how God could be on earth, that could only be appearance, that could all be without meaning. The Christ would have to be understood purely spiritually. Tertullian said: “You are right, Marcion” — this is now in Tertullian's writings — “you are right when you make your concepts as you make them; these are quite understandable, transparent concepts, but then you must also apply them only to the finite, to the things that happen in nature; you must not apply them to the divine. For the divine, one must have other concepts. And what is the rule, the law, for the workings of the divine, may appear absurd to the finite mind.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"title":"Second Lecture","site_heading":"Bridging Clairvoyance and Reason: The Trinity's Emergence","site_heading_note":"A heading the site wrote for this unit from a summary of it; not in the edition, and not the words of Rudolf Steiner or of the translator. Cite the unit by its title and locus, never by this heading, and do not quote it.","date":"1916-01-16","location":null,"word_count":213,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/165/1916-01-16/p022","alignment_confidence":"high","alignment_reason":"beads:identity","two_voice_volume":false,"translation_credit":{"scope":"unit","status":"established","translator":"Steiner Online Library","identified_edition":"SOL2025","book_title":"The Conceptual World and Its Relationship to Reality","publisher":"Steiner Online Library","publisher_inferred":true,"match_score":1.0,"source_url":"https://www.rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA165/English/SOL2025/19160116p01.html","evidence":"lecture_page_line","publisher_note":"The publisher is inferred from the edition code in this lecture's source URL, not stated by the source page. The translator IS verified for this lecture: its own source names the translator (evidence: the lecture's page, rsarchive's lecture list, or the cover of the book it was published in), and that page's text was matched against this unit (see match_score and source_url). Cite the translator with confidence; attribute the publisher only as probable."},"edition_coverage":{"de":["original"],"en":["English"]},"available_versions":[{"lang":"de","edition":"original","edition_basis":null,"is_original":true,"is_default_edition":true,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/165/1916-01-16/p022"},{"lang":"en","edition":"English","edition_basis":null,"is_original":false,"is_default_edition":true,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/165/1916-01-16/p022","paragraph_aligned":true}],"record":{"record_type":"unknown","scope":"volume","note":"How this text was taken down (shorthand transcript, listeners' notes or manuscript) is not on record here. Unknown is not an assurance of a stenogram: check the edition's own notes before resting an argument on one word.","evidence":null,"evidence_translation":null,"evidence_source":null},"paired_german":{"status":"paired","german":[{"locus":"GA 165/1916-01-16/p022","passage_number":22,"text":"Nun, solch ein Mensch wie Marcion sagte aus seiner luziferisch infiizierten Gnosis heraus: Den Prozeß des Menschenwerdens und so weiter, der sich hier auf der Erde abspielt, den kann doch ein Gott nicht durchmachen, weil ein Gott andern Gesetzen unterliegen muß, die der geistigen Welt angehören. Er fand nicht den Zusammenhang zwischen dem Geistigen und dem Materiellen, dem Sinnlichen. Nun gab es eine nicht mehr vorhandene Auseinandersetzung darüber — Marcion ist äußerlich, physisch, nur aus seinen Gegnern, zum Beispiel aus Tertullian, wiederzuerkennen -, daß die ganze äußere physische Geschichte des Jesus von Nazareth gar nicht angemessen wäre der göttlichen Weltordnung; wie Gott auf der Erde sein könnte, das kann alles nur Schein sein, das kann alles ohne Bedeutung sein. Der Christus müßte rein geistig erfaßt werden. — Tertullian sagte: Du hast recht, Marcion — das steht jetzt in Tertullians Schriften —, du hast recht, wenn du deine Begriffe so machst, wie du sie machst; das sind ganz verständliche, durchschaubare Begriffe, aber du mußt sie dann auch nur auf das Endliche, auf die Dinge anwenden, die in der Natur vor sich gehen; du darfst sie nicht auf das Göttliche anwenden. Für das Göttliche muß man andere Begriffe haben. Und da kann für den endlichen Verstand absurd erscheinen, was für das Walten des Göttlichen die Regel, das Gesetz ist.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":217,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/165/1916-01-16/p022"}],"english":["GA 165/1916-01-16/p022"],"method":"identity","confidence":"high","correspondence":"established","length_check":{"de_words":217,"en_words":213,"ratio":0.98,"partial":false},"pairing_state":"verified","verified":true,"evidence":["length","meaning","audit"]},"witness_completeness":{"ratio":1.02,"band":"comparable","note":null,"word_count":9551,"original_word_count":9343,"may_be_abridged":false},"witness_quality":{"translator":{"scope":"unit","status":"recorded","translator":"Steiner Online Library","identified_edition":"SOL2025","book_title":"The Conceptual World and Its Relationship to Reality","publisher":"Steiner Online Library","publisher_inferred":true,"match_score":1.0,"source_url":"https://www.rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA165/English/SOL2025/19160116p01.html","evidence":"lecture_page_line","publisher_note":"The publisher is inferred from the edition code in this lecture's source URL, not stated by the source page. The translator IS verified for this lecture: its own source names the translator (evidence: the lecture's page, rsarchive's lecture list, or the cover of the book it was published in), and that page's text was matched against this unit (see match_score and source_url). Cite the translator with confidence; attribute the publisher only as probable."},"entity_parity":{"status":"ok","checked_against":["GA 165/1916-01-16/p022"],"missing_from_translation":[],"present_only_in_translation":[],"bead_confidence":"high","note":"Every load-bearing name in the German counterpart appears in this English passage. That is a check on NAMES only: a translation can keep every name and still reverse who acts on whom, change a number, or soften a claim. Read the German for anything you intend to rest an argument on."},"note":"quote_safe certifies the bytes of this text. This block is about the translation as a WITNESS: who made it, and whether it carries the same names as the original. See witness_completeness for how much of the original this witness holds."}}