{"corpus":"steiner","locus":"GA 179/1917-12-15/p010-p016","extent":"range","passage_number":10,"through":16,"paragraph_count":7,"first_locus":"GA 179/1917-12-15/p010","last_locus":"GA 179/1917-12-15/p016","lang":"en","edition":"English","edition_basis":null,"is_original":false,"is_default_edition":true,"title":"5. The Members of Man's Being and the Periods of His Life","date":"1917-12-15","location":null,"alignment_confidence":"medium","alignment_reason":"beads:length","two_voice_volume":false,"translation_credit":{"scope":"unit","status":"not_established","translator":null,"identified_edition":"ANS1934","book_title":"Historical Necessity and Freewill","publisher":null,"publisher_inferred":false,"match_score":1.0,"source_url":"https://www.rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA179/English/ANS1934/19171215p01.html","evidence":null,"reason":"no_translator_named","note":"Neither the lecture's own page nor rsarchive's lecture list names a translator for it. 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In stating that a certain person is 35 years old he has, in fact, said something of importance for the physical plane and for the usual waking consciousness; but for the spiritual world, in other words, for the etheric being of man, this implies only a *part* of the reality. When you say: I am 35 years old—you only say this in regard to your physical body. You must say: My physical body is 35 years old—then this will be correct. But these words express nothing at all as far as the etheric body, or the body of formative forces is concerned, and nothing at all as far as the other members of the human being are concerned. For it is an illusion, it is indeed quite fantastic to think that your ego, for instance, is 35 years old, when your physical body is 35 years old. You see, here we must bear in mind different speeds, different rapidities in the development of the various members.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":211,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/179/1917-12-15/p010","german_anchor":{"de_prefix":"1917-12-15","de_passages":[{"locus":"GA 179/1917-12-15/p009","url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/179/1917-12-15/p009"}],"bead_confidence":"medium","length_check":{"de_words":224,"en_words":242,"ratio":1.08,"partial":false},"correspondence":"established","note":"English passage numbering is edition-relative, so the same number need not name the same paragraph in the German. 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A human being is, let us say, 7 years old; this means nothing less than this:--his physical body has reached the age of 7 years. His etheric body, his body of formative forces, is not yet 7 years old, for his body of formative forces does not maintain the same speed as the physical body and has not yet reached this age. We are not aware of such things just because we imagine time as one continuous stream, and thus we cannot form the thought that different things maintain different speeds within the course of time. This physical body that is 7 years old has developed according to a certain speed. The etheric body develops more slowly, the astral body still more slowly, and slowest of all, the ego. The etheric body is only 5 years and 3 months old when the physical body is 7 years old, because it develops more slowly. The astral body is 3 years and 6 months old, and the ego, 1 year and 9 months. Thus you must say to yourself—when a child is 7 years old, its ego is only 1 year and 9 months old. This ego undergoes a slower development on the physical plane. On the physical plane this ego develops at a slower pace; it is a slower pace, the same pace that we find in our life with the dead. Why do we not grasp what takes place in the stream of the experiences of the dead? Because we do not grow accustomed to the slower pace of the dead, and do not admit this into our thoughts and especially into our feelings, in order to hold them fast.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":288,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/179/1917-12-15/p011","german_anchor":{"de_prefix":"1917-12-15","de_passages":[{"locus":"GA 179/1917-12-15/p010","url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/179/1917-12-15/p010"}],"bead_confidence":"medium","length_check":{"de_words":267,"en_words":288,"ratio":1.08,"partial":false},"correspondence":"established","note":"English passage numbering is edition-relative, so the same number need not name the same paragraph in the German. 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See witness_completeness for how much of the original this witness holds."}},{"passage_number":12,"locus":"GA 179/1917-12-15/p012","text":"Hence, if someone is 28 years old as far as his physical body is concerned, then his ego is only 7 years old. As far as your ego is concerned, which is the essential part of your being, you thus maintain a much slower pace in the course of development than that of the physical body. You see, the difficulty consists in the fact that, generally, we consider speed, or velocities, merely as outer velocities. When things move one beside another, we say that one thing moves more quickly and the other one more slowly because we use Time as a comparison. But here the speed within Time is different. Without this insight into the fact that the different members of the human being have different speeds in their development, it is impossible to grasp the connections with the true deeper being of man.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":144,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/179/1917-12-15/p012","german_anchor":{"de_prefix":"1917-12-15","de_passages":[{"locus":"GA 179/1917-12-15/p011","url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/179/1917-12-15/p011"}],"bead_confidence":"medium","length_check":{"de_words":132,"en_words":164,"ratio":1.24,"partial":false},"correspondence":"established","note":"English passage numbering is edition-relative, so the same number need not name the same paragraph in the German. 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He says something that has absolutely no meaning whatever for the spiritual world, in stating that his ego is 28 years old, when he is 28 according to his physical body. His statement would only have a meaning if he would say:—My ego is 7 years old—in the case of the ego, a year is naturally four times as long as in the case of the physical body. One might also say that the age of the four different members of the human being must be reckoned according to four entirely different measurements of time; for the ego, a year is simply four times as long as for the physical body.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":151,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/179/1917-12-15/p014","german_anchor":{"de_prefix":"1917-12-15","de_passages":[{"locus":"GA 179/1917-12-15/p012","url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/179/1917-12-15/p012"},{"locus":"GA 179/1917-12-15/p013","url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/179/1917-12-15/p013"}],"bead_confidence":"medium","length_check":{"de_words":269,"en_words":264,"ratio":0.98,"partial":false},"correspondence":"established","note":"English passage numbering is edition-relative, so the same number need not name the same paragraph in the German. 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An unattributed translation cannot be weighed as a witness: you cannot tell which hand made the choices in it. Cite the German for anything load-bearing."},"entity_parity":{"status":"ok","checked_against":["GA 179/1917-12-15/p012","GA 179/1917-12-15/p013"],"missing_from_translation":[],"present_only_in_translation":[],"bead_confidence":"medium","note":"Every load-bearing name in the German counterpart appears in this English passage. That is a check on NAMES only: a translation can keep every name and still reverse who acts on whom, change a number, or soften a claim. Read the German for anything you intend to rest an argument on."},"note":"quote_safe certifies the bytes of this text. This block is about the translation as a WITNESS: who made it, and whether it carries the same names as the original. 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This is indeed so.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":113,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/179/1917-12-15/p015","german_anchor":{"de_prefix":"1917-12-15","de_passages":[{"locus":"GA 179/1917-12-15/p012","url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/179/1917-12-15/p012"},{"locus":"GA 179/1917-12-15/p013","url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/179/1917-12-15/p013"}],"bead_confidence":"medium","length_check":{"de_words":269,"en_words":264,"ratio":0.98,"partial":false},"correspondence":"established","note":"English passage numbering is edition-relative, so the same number need not name the same paragraph in the German. 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All we possess, in addition to this one fourth, we owe to what holds sway in the historical, social, and moral processes within that world we dream away and sleep away. Dream and sleep impulses, which we have in common with the universe, seethe up, above the horizon of our being and fructify this fourth part of our understanding and soul, and make it four times as strong as it really is.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":216,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/179/1917-12-15/p016","german_anchor":{"de_prefix":"1917-12-15","de_passages":[{"locus":"GA 179/1917-12-15/p014","url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/179/1917-12-15/p014"}],"bead_confidence":"medium","length_check":{"de_words":208,"en_words":216,"ratio":1.04,"partial":false},"correspondence":"established","note":"English passage numbering is edition-relative, so the same number need not name the same paragraph in the German. 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Wenn man so vom Standpunkte des gewöhnlichen wachen Bewußtseins aus redet und frägt: Wie alt ist eigentlich ein Mensch, dieser bestimmte Mensch A, wie alt ist er? - Nun, da wird irgend jemand sein Alter angeben, sagen wir fünfunddreißig Jahre, und er glaubt, damit etwas Ernsthaftes gesagt zu haben. Er hat auch für den physischen Plan und das gewöhnliche Wachbewußtsein etwas Ernsthaftes damit gesagt, daß er fünfunddreißig Jahre alt sei. Aber für die geistige Welt, also für die Gesamtwesenheit des Menschen, ist damit nur teilweise etwas gesagt. Denn Sie können eigentlich, wenn Sie sagen, ich bin fünfunddreißig Jahre alt, dies nur für Ihren physischen Leib sagen. Sie müßten sagen: Mein physischer Leib ist fünfunddreißig Jahre alt - dann würde die Sache stimmen. Für den ätherischen oder Bildekräfteleib, für die andern Glieder der menschlichen Wesenheit haben Sie aber damit noch gar nichts gesagt. Denn daß Ihr Ich zum Beispiel auch fünfunddreißig Jahre alt sein soll, wenn Ihr physischer Leib fünfunddreißig Jahre alt ist, das ist eine bloße Illusion, das ist sogar eine reine Phantasterei. Denn sehen Sie, hier tritt auf der Begriff verschieden geschwinder, verschieden schneller Entwickelung der verschiedenen Glieder der menschlichen Natur.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":224,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/179/1917-12-15/p009"},{"locus":"GA 179/1917-12-15/p010","passage_number":10,"text":"Das können Sie sich durch folgende Zahlen klarmachen. Der Mensch wird, sagen wir sieben Jahre alt; das heißt aber nichts anderes als: sein physischer Leib ist sieben Jahre alt geworden. Dann ist deshalb sein Ätherleib, sein Bildekräfteleib noch nicht sieben Jahre alt, sondern sein Bildekräfteleib macht nicht so schnell mit; der ist noch nicht so alt geworden. Man kommt auf diese Dinge nur deshalb nicht, weil man die Zeit sich eben so als einen einheitlich dahinlaufenden Strom vorstellt und man sich gar nicht denken kann, daß innerhalb der Zeit verschiedenes mit verschiedener Geschwindigkeit vorwärtsgeht. Dieser physische Leib, der sieben Jahre ist, der hat sich mit einer gewissen Geschwindigkeit entwickelt. Langsamer hat sich entwickelt der Ätherleib, noch langsamer der astralische Leib, und am langsamsten das Ich. Dieser Ätherleib ist erst fünf Jahre drei Monate alt, wenn der physische Leib sieben Jahre alt ist, weil er ein langsameres Tempo durchmacht. Der astralische Leib ist drei Jahre sechs Monate alt. Und das Ich ist ein Jahr neun Monate alt. So daß Sie sich sagen müssen, wenn ein Kind sieben Jahre alt ist, so ist sein Ich erst ein Jahr neun Monate alt. Es macht dieses Ich eine langsamere Entwickelung durch auf dem physischen Plane. Es geht dieses Ich auf dem physischen Plane ein langsameres Tempo, jenes langsamere Tempo, welches auch das Tempo ist, das man gemeinschaftlich mit den Toten durchleben kann. Warum faßt denn der Mensch dasjenige, was im Strom des Erlebens der Toten stattfindet, nicht auf? Weil er sich nicht angewöhnt, das langsamere Tempo einzuschlagen im Halten von Gedanken, im Halten von Gefühlen namentlich, in dem die Toten verharren.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":267,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/179/1917-12-15/p010"},{"locus":"GA 179/1917-12-15/p011","passage_number":11,"text":"Ist also ein Mensch achtundzwanzig Jahre alt seinem physischen Leibe nach, so ist sein Ich erst sieben Jahre alt. Sie können also nur den Anspruch darauf machen, daß Sie in bezug auf Ihr Ich, was das Eigentliche Ihrer Wesenheit ist, ein viel langsameres Tempo einhalten in der Entwickelung als in bezug auf den physischen Leib. Die Schwierigkeit besteht darinnen, daß man sonst Geschwindigkeiten nur als äußere Geschwindigkeiten auffaßt. Wenn die Dinge nebeneinander hinlaufen, so sagt man: Eines geht schneller und das andere geht langsamer - weil man die Zeit zum Vergleich hat. Aber hier ist die Geschwindigkeit in der Zeit verschieden. Ohne diese Einsicht aber, daß die verschiedenen Glieder der menschlichen Natur verschiedenes Tempo haben zu ihrer Entwickelung, ist es unmöglich, dasjenige einzusehen, was mit der eigentlichen tieferen Wesenheit des Menschen zusammenhängt.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":132,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/179/1917-12-15/p011"},{"locus":"GA 179/1917-12-15/p012","passage_number":12,"text":"Sie sehen aber daraus, wie man im gewöhnlichen Bewußtsein eigentlich ganz verschiedene Dinge, die in der menschlichen Natur sind, einfach zusammenwirft. Der Mensch hat diese viergliederige Wesenheit, und die vier Glieder dieser Wesenheit sind so voneinander verschieden, daß sie sogar verschiedenes Alter haben. Der Mensch aber gibt sich dadurch einer beträchtlichen Illusion hin, daß er alles auf seinen physischen Leib bezieht. Er sagt etwas, was schlechterdings vor der geistigen Welt gar keinen Sinn hat, wenn er behauptet, sein Ich sei achtundzwanzig Jahre alt, wenn er seinem physischen Leibe nach achtundzwanzig Jahre alt ist. Es hätte nur einen Sinn, wenn er dann sagen würde: Mein Ich ist sieben Jahre alt - wobei aber dann ein Jahr selbstverständlich viermal so lang ist.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":120,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/179/1917-12-15/p012"},{"locus":"GA 179/1917-12-15/p013","passage_number":13,"text":"Man könnte die Sache auch so ausdrücken: die vier verschiedenen Glieder der menschlichen Wesenheit rechnen nach ganz verschiedenen Zeitmaßen. Das Ich rechnet einfach ein Jahr viermal so lang als der physische Leib. Und bildhaft könnten Sie sich das so vorstellen, wenn Sie es sich projizieren wollten auf den physischen Plan heraus. Während zum Beispiel ein Mensch normal wächst, achtundzwanzig Jahre alt wird, wachse ein Kind langsamer und sei nach achtundzwanzig Jahren ein siebenjähriges Kind. So zunächst erscheint die ganze Sache wie eine abstrakte Wahrheit, aber es ist im Menschen eine gründliche Wirklichkeit. Denn denken Sie doch, daß wir in unserem Ich dasjenige tragen, was wir unseren Verstand, unser selbstbewußtes Denken nennen. Wenn wir in unserem Ich unseren Verstand, unser selbstbewußtes Denken haben, dann sind unser Verstand und unser selbstbewußtes Denken eigentlich wesentlich jünger, als wir scheinbar unserem physischen Leibe nach sind. Das sind sie auch, das sind sie wirklich!","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":149,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/179/1917-12-15/p013"},{"locus":"GA 179/1917-12-15/p014","passage_number":14,"text":"Ja, da kommen Sie aber darauf, einzusehen: wenn ein solcher Mensch achtundzwanzig Jahre alt ist und den Eindruck eines achtundzwanzigjährig entwickelten Verstandes macht, so ist das, was sein Eigen ist von diesem Verstand, den er hat, nur ein Viertel. Es hilft nichts: wenn wir mit achtundzwanzig Jahren eine gewisse Summe von Verstand haben uns eigen ist nur ein Viertel davon, das andere gehört der allgemeinen Welt an; das andere gehört der Welt an, in die wir eingetaucht sind durch unseren astralischen Leib, durch unseren ÄÄtherleib, durch unseren physischen Leib. Aber von denen wissen wir ja unmittelbar nur durch Vorstellungen, durch Sinneswahrnehmungen etwas, also auch wiederum im Ich. Das heißt, wenn wir als Menschen uns entwickeln zwischen der Geburt und dem Tode, so sind wir eigentlich rechte Scheinwesen der Wirklichkeit. Wir machen den Eindruck von viermal so gescheiten Wesen, als wir in Wirklichkeit sind. Das ist wahr! Alles, was wir außer jenem Viertel haben, das verdanken wir dem, was da waltet im historischen, im sozialen, im moralischen Wirken jener Welt, die wir verträumen, die wir verschlafen. Träume, Schlafimpulse, die wir mit der Allgemeinheit gemein haben, brodeln herauf über den Horizont unseres Daseins und befruchten unser Verstandes- und Seelenviertel und machen es viermal so stark, als es in Wirklichkeit ist.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":208,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/179/1917-12-15/p014"}],"beads":[{"from":[9,10],"to":[9],"confidence":"medium"},{"from":[11],"to":[10],"confidence":"medium"},{"from":[12,13],"to":[11],"confidence":"medium"},{"from":[14,15],"to":[12,13],"confidence":"medium"},{"from":[16],"to":[14],"confidence":"medium"}],"note":"Paired by the paragraph aligner; each language numbers its own paragraphs. A bead at either end of the span can carry text beyond it (the `from` numbers show what each bead covers)."}}