{"corpus":"steiner","locus":"GA 183/1918-08-26/p004","lang":"en","edition":"English","edition_basis":null,"is_original":false,"is_default_edition":true,"text":"Men still had ideas, concepts, with which to answer these questions up to that point of time described in these lectures, the time at the beginning of the fourth post-Atlantean period, that is, up to approximately the middle of the eighth pre-Christian century. Men had concepts that came down out of ancient wisdom. In those olden times before the eighth pre-Christian century, ideas were in fact circulating everywhere in the cultural life of the earth giving men, in conformity with the mind of those times, the solution to such questions as are here mentioned. What today we call science cannot connect the right meaning with these questions and has no idea that there is something in them for which men should be seeking a possible answer. All this arises because since the point of time indicated, all conceptions related to spiritual and therefore to immortal man have actually been lost. Only these conceptions remain that are connected with man's transitory nature, man between his birth and his death. I have drawn attention to how in all the old world-conceptions they spoke of the Sun as being threefold; the same sun that is perceived out there by the physical senses as a shining sphere in cosmic space. But behind this sun the wise men of old saw the soul-sun, according to the Greeks Helios, and behind this soul-Sun again, the spiritual-Sun, still identified by Plato, for example, with the Good. Modern men do not see any real sense in speaking of Helios, the soul-Sun, or for that matter of the spiritual-Sun, the Good. But as the physical sun shines upon us here between birth and death, there shines into our ego, if I may say so, during the time we pass between death and a new birth, the spiritual sun identified by Plato with the Good. And during this time between death and a new birth, to speak of a shining sphere in the way it is spoken of in our modern materialistic world-conception has no meaning. Between death and a new birth there is only meaning when we speak of the spiritual-Sun Plato still referred to as the Good. A concept of this kind is just what should show us something. It should lead us to reflect how the matter really stands with regard to the physical representation we form of the world. It is not taken seriously in its full sense, at any rate not so seriously that our outlook on life is actually permeated by it, that in all our physical representations of the world, in what is spread out perceptibly before us, we have to see a kind of illusion, Maya.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"title":"Lecture III","site_heading":"The Threefold Sun and Human Metamorphosis Across Incarnations","site_heading_note":"A heading the site wrote for this unit from a summary of it; not in the edition, and not the words of Rudolf Steiner or of the translator. Cite the unit by its title and locus, never by this heading, and do not quote it.","date":"1918-08-26","location":null,"word_count":444,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/183/1918-08-26/p004","alignment_confidence":"medium","alignment_reason":"beads:length","two_voice_volume":false,"translation_credit":{"scope":"unit","status":"not_established","translator":null,"identified_edition":"LRZ254","book_title":"Mysteries of the Sun and of the Threefold Man","publisher":null,"publisher_inferred":false,"match_score":1.0,"source_url":"https://www.rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA183/English/LRZ254/19180826p01.html","evidence":null,"reason":"source_says_translator_unknown","note":"The source page itself says the translator is unknown. No translator is established for this lecture: nothing at the level of the lecture names one. Do not attribute this English to a translator, and do not borrow a credit from another lecture of the volume. Cite the German for anything load-bearing."},"edition_coverage":{"de":["original"],"en":["English"]},"available_versions":[{"lang":"de","edition":"original","edition_basis":null,"is_original":true,"is_default_edition":true,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/183/1918-08-26/p004"},{"lang":"en","edition":"English","edition_basis":null,"is_original":false,"is_default_edition":true,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/183/1918-08-26/p004","paragraph_aligned":true}],"record":{"record_type":"unknown","scope":"volume","note":"How this text was taken down (shorthand transcript, listeners' notes or manuscript) is not on record here. Unknown is not an assurance of a stenogram: check the edition's own notes before resting an argument on one word.","evidence":null,"evidence_translation":null,"evidence_source":null},"german_anchor":{"de_prefix":"1918-08-26","de_passages":[{"locus":"GA 183/1918-08-26/p004","url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/183/1918-08-26/p004"},{"locus":"GA 183/1918-08-26/p005","url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/183/1918-08-26/p005"}],"bead_confidence":"medium","pairing_state":"proposed","verified":false,"length_check":{"de_words":466,"en_words":444,"ratio":0.95,"partial":false},"correspondence":"established","note":"English passage numbering is edition-relative, so the same number need not name the same paragraph in the German. The German original passage(s) above are the edition-invariant anchor — fetch them (lang='de') to verify wording before quoting across editions."},"paired_german":{"status":"paired","german":[{"locus":"GA 183/1918-08-26/p004","passage_number":4,"text":"Sich solche Fragen zu beantworten, dazu hatten die Menschen bis zu jenem Zeitpunkte, den ich Ihnen in diesen Betrachtungen schon angegeben habe, bis zu dem Zeitpunkt der beginnenden vierten nachatlantischen Zeit, so ungefähr bis in die Mitte des 8. vorchristlichen Jahrhunderts, noch Vorstellungen, Begriffe. Aus alter Weisheit herüberbekommen hatten sie Begriffe. Es gab auch in jenen alten Zeiten, die dem 8. vorchristlichen Jahrhundert vorangingen, über die damalige Erdenkultur verbreitet überall Vorstellungen, welche nach dem Sinn der damaligen Zeit den Menschen Aufschluß gaben über solche Fragen wie die eben angedeuteten. Dasjenige, was wir heute Wissenschaft nennen, kann nicht einmal einen rechten Sinn verbinden mit solchen Fragen, kommt gar nicht darauf, daß etwas mit diesen Fragen gegeben ist, wozu man irgendeine Antwort suchen sollte. Das alles rührt davon her, daß in der Zeit, die seit dem eben angedeuteten Zeitpunkte verflossen ist, eigentlich alle Vorstellungen verlorengegangen sind, die sich auf den geistigen und damit auf den ewigen Menschen beziehen. Es sind nur diejenigen Vorstellungen geblieben, die sich auf den vergänglichen Menschen und den zwischen Geburt und Tod eingeschlossenen Menschen beziehen.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":177,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/183/1918-08-26/p004"},{"locus":"GA 183/1918-08-26/p005","passage_number":5,"text":"Ich habe darauf aufmerksam gemacht, daß in allen alten Weltanschauungen von einer dreifachen Sonne gesprochen wurde, von jener Sonne, die man mit den physischen Sinnen wahrnimmt als eine leuchtende Kugel im Weltenraume draußen. Hinter dieser Sonne aber sahen die alten Weisen die seelische Sonne - im griechischen Sinne gesprochen, den Helios — und erst hinter dieser seelischen Sonne die geistige Sonne, die zum Beispiel noch Plato identifizierte mit dem Guten. Es hat für den heutigen Menschen eigentlich keinen rechten Sinn, von dem Helios, der seelischen Sonne, oder gar von der geistigen Sonne, von dem Guten, zu sprechen. Aber so wie uns hier zwischen Geburt und Tod die physische Sonne leuchtet, so scheint, wenn ich sagen darf, in unser Ich hinein in der Zeit, die wir verbringen zwischen dem Tod und einer neuen Geburt, die geistige Sonne, die eben noch von Plato identifiziert wird mit dem Guten. Für die Zeit zwischen dem Tod und einer neuen Geburt von dieser leuchtenden Kugel zu sprechen, von der unsere heutige materialistische Weltanschauung spricht, hat keinen Sinn; zwischen dem Tod und einer neuen Geburt hat nur Sinn zu sprechen von der geistigen Sonne, von dem, was Plato noch als das Gute bezeichnet. Aber gerade ein solcher Begriff sollte uns auf etwas hinweisen. Er sollte uns darauf hinweisen, nachzudenken, wie es sich eigentlich verhält mit dem, was wir uns als physische Vorstellung von der Welt bilden. Daß wir in dem, was wir uns als physische Vorstellungen von der Welt bilden, in dem, was sinnenfällig vor uns ausgebreitet ist, zu sehen haben eine Art von Täuschung, eine Art von Maja, das wird doch nicht im vollen Sinne des Wortes ernst genommen, wenigstens nicht so ernst, daß die Anschauung des Lebens wirklich mit diesen Dingen durchdrungen würde.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":289,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/183/1918-08-26/p005"}],"english":["GA 183/1918-08-26/p004"],"method":"length","confidence":"medium","correspondence":"established","length_check":{"de_words":466,"en_words":444,"ratio":0.95,"partial":false},"pairing_state":"proposed","verified":false},"witness_completeness":{"ratio":1.03,"band":"comparable","note":null,"word_count":8236,"original_word_count":7984,"may_be_abridged":false},"witness_quality":{"translator":{"scope":"unit","status":"not_established","translator":null,"identified_edition":"LRZ254","book_title":"Mysteries of the Sun and of the Threefold Man","publisher":null,"publisher_inferred":false,"match_score":1.0,"source_url":"https://www.rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA183/English/LRZ254/19180826p01.html","evidence":null,"reason":"source_says_translator_unknown","note":"The source page itself says the translator is unknown. No translator is established for this lecture: nothing at the level of the lecture names one. Do not attribute this English to a translator, and do not borrow a credit from another lecture of the volume. Cite the German for anything load-bearing.","warning":"No translator is recorded for this edition. An unattributed translation cannot be weighed as a witness: you cannot tell which hand made the choices in it. Cite the German for anything load-bearing."},"entity_parity":{"status":"discrepancy","checked_against":["GA 183/1918-08-26/p004","GA 183/1918-08-26/p005"],"missing_from_translation":[],"present_only_in_translation":["Christ"],"bead_confidence":"medium","bead_length_ratio":0.95,"likely_cause":"unresolved","note":"NAME MISMATCH between this English passage and its German counterpart. A name the German carries is absent here (or a name appears here that the German does not carry). Two things cause this and they need telling apart: the translation really drops or reassigns what the original distinguishes, OR the paragraph alignment paired the wrong passages. `bead_confidence` does NOT settle which: this corpus's embedding aligner pairs topically-related paragraphs at full confidence, and a sampled high-confidence mismatch proved to be a wrong pairing. Read the German passages listed and confirm they are counterparts BEFORE drawing any conclusion about the translation."},"note":"quote_safe certifies the bytes of this text. This block is about the translation as a WITNESS: who made it, and whether it carries the same names as the original. See witness_completeness for how much of the original this witness holds."}}