{"corpus":"steiner","locus":"GA 201/1920-05-02/p016","lang":"en","edition":"English","edition_basis":null,"is_original":false,"is_default_edition":true,"text":"Now I will ask you carefully to consider the following. It is first of all necessary to understand from inner grounds the movement of the Earth. We must recognise the influence upon it of the Venus and Mercury forces, which themselves bear the lemniscate on further, so that it progresses, and its axis becomes itself a lemniscate. We have thus for the Earth an extremely complicated movement. And now I come to what I wish to point out. Suppose we have to draw this movement. Astronomy tries to do so. Astronomy wants to have a planetary system; it wants to draw the solar system and explain it by calculation. Planets such as Venus and Mercury, however, have relation to the extra-spatial, the super-sensible, the spiritual, to that which does not originally belong in space, but has, as it were, come into it. Thus if you have the paths of Saturn, Jupiter, Mars, and, in the same space, draw in also the paths of Mercury and Venus, you will get at most a projection of the Mercury or of the Venus orbit, but in no sense the orbits themselves. If we employ the three-dimensional space to sketch in the orbits of Jupiter, Saturn and Mars, we come at most to a boundary, where we get something like a path of the Sun. But if we wish to draw the others, we can no longer do so in the three-dimensional space, we can only get shadow-pictures of these other movements in it; we cannot draw the path of Venus and that of Saturn in the same space. From this we see that all delineations of the solar system where the same space is used for Saturn as for Venus, are only approximate, they do not suffice for a solar system. Such drawings are as little possible as it would be to explain the whole being of man according to purely natural forces only. This shows why no solar system is adequate. A non-astronomer such as Johannes Schlaf could easily prove to quite well-established astronomers the impossibility of their solar system by very simple facts, pointing out that if the Sun and the Earth are so related that the latter revolves round the former, the Sun-spots could not show themselves as they do, the Earth being at one time behind the Sun, at another in front, and then going round it again. That, however, is in no wise the case. No drawing of our solar system that is inscribed into one space of the ordinary three dimensions will be right. We must understand this. Just as in the case of man, in order to understand him as a whole we must pass from physical to super-sensible forces; so in the same way, to understand the solar-system, we must pass from the three dimensions into other dimensions. That is to say, we cannot delineate the ordinary solar system in the three-dimensional space. Planetary ‘globes’ and so forth we have to look at in this way: If here we have Saturn on the globe and there Mercury, then it is not the true Mercury but its shadow only, its projection.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"title":"Lecture Eleven","site_heading":"The Head's Cosmic Origins: Saturn, Venus, and Dimensional Thinking","site_heading_note":"A heading the site wrote for this unit from a summary of it; not in the edition, and not the words of Rudolf Steiner or of the translator. Cite the unit by its title and locus, never by this heading, and do not quote it.","date":"1920-05-02","location":null,"word_count":525,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/201/1920-05-02/p016","alignment_confidence":"high","alignment_reason":"beads:length","two_voice_volume":false,"translation_credit":{"scope":"unit","status":"established","translator":"George and Mary Adams","identified_edition":"RSP1972","book_title":"Man: Hieroglyph of the Universe","publisher":"Rudolf Steiner Press","publisher_inferred":true,"match_score":1.0,"source_url":"https://www.rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA201/English/RSP1972/19200502p01.html","evidence":"lecture_page_line","publisher_note":"The publisher is inferred from the edition code in this lecture's source URL, not stated by the source page. The translator IS verified for this lecture: its own source names the translator (evidence: the lecture's page, rsarchive's lecture list, or the cover of the book it was published in), and that page's text was matched against this unit (see match_score and source_url). Cite the translator with confidence; attribute the publisher only as probable."},"edition_coverage":{"de":["original"],"en":["English"]},"available_versions":[{"lang":"de","edition":"original","edition_basis":null,"is_original":true,"is_default_edition":true,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/201/1920-05-02/p016"},{"lang":"en","edition":"English","edition_basis":null,"is_original":false,"is_default_edition":true,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/201/1920-05-02/p016","paragraph_aligned":true}],"record":{"record_type":"unknown","scope":"volume","note":"How this text was taken down (shorthand transcript, listeners' notes or manuscript) is not on record here. Unknown is not an assurance of a stenogram: check the edition's own notes before resting an argument on one word.","evidence":null,"evidence_translation":null,"evidence_source":null},"german_anchor":{"de_prefix":"1920-05-02","de_passages":[{"locus":"GA 201/1920-05-02/p015","url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/201/1920-05-02/p015"}],"bead_confidence":"high","pairing_state":"proposed","verified":false,"length_check":{"de_words":533,"en_words":525,"ratio":0.98,"partial":false},"correspondence":"established","note":"English passage numbering is edition-relative, so the same number need not name the same paragraph in the German. The German original passage(s) above are the edition-invariant anchor — fetch them (lang='de') to verify wording before quoting across editions."},"paired_german":{"status":"paired","german":[{"locus":"GA 201/1920-05-02/p015","passage_number":15,"text":"Nun bitte ich Sie aber folgendes zu beachten. Wir haben nötig, zunächst einmal aus inneren Gründen die Bewegung der Erde lemniskatisch aufzufassen, außerdem als wirkend auf die Bewegung der Erde die Venus- und Merkurkräfte, die die Lemniskate selber wiederum weitertragen, so daß eigentlich die Lemniskate fortschreitet und ihre Achse selber dann wiederum eine Lemniskate wird. Wir haben eine außerordentlich komplizierte Bewegung für die Erde selber. Und nun kommt das, worauf ich Sie eigentlich hinweisen will. Es strebt die Astronomie danach, diese Bewegungen zu zeichnen. Man will ein Planetensystem haben. Man will das Sonnensystem zeichnen und rechnerisch erklären. Aber solche Planeten wie Venus und Merkur, die haben auch Beziehungen zu dem Außerräumlichen, zu dem Übersinnlichen, zu dem Geistigen, zu dem, was gar nicht in den Raum hineingehört. Wollen Sie also die Bahn des Saturn, die Bahn des Jupiter, die Bahn des Mars erfassen und in denselben Raum hineinzeichnen auch die Bahn von Venus und Merkur, so kriegen Sie da hinein höchstens eine Projektion der Venus- und Merkurbahn, aber keineswegs die Venus- und Merkurbahn selbst. Wenn Sie den dreidimensionalen Raum verwenden, um hineinzuzeichnen die Bahn von Jupiter, Saturn und Mars, so kommen Sie höchstens noch an eine Grenze; da kriegen Sie so etwas wie eine Bahn der Sonne. Wollen Sie aber jetzt das andere zeichnen, was da noch kommt, dann können Sie das nicht mehr in den dreidimensionalen Raum hineinzeichnen, sondern Sie können nur Schattenbilder für diese anderen Bewegungen in den dreidimensionalen Raum hineinkriegen. Sie können nicht in denselben Raum hineinzeichnen die Bahn der Venus und die Bahn des Saturn. Daraus ersehen Sie, daß alles Zeichnen des Sonnensystems, indem man sich dabei desselben Raumes bedient für den Saturn wie für die Venus, daß das alles nur Annäherungen sind, daß es gar nicht geht, ein Sonnensystem zu zeichnen. Das geht ebensowenig, wie Sie einen Menschen seiner Gesamtwesenheit nach aus den bloß natürlichen Kräften erklären können. Und jetzt werden Sie einsehen, warum kein Sonnensystem genügt. Leicht konnte ein Gar-nicht-Astronom wie Johannes Schlaf den Leuten, die ganz feste Astronomen sind, die Unmöglichkeit ihres Sonnensystems zeigen an sehr einfachen Tatsachen, indem er einfach zum Beispiel darauf hinwies, daß wenn die Sonne und die Erde sich so verhielten, daß die Erde herumginge um die Sonne, müßten sich Sonnenflecken nicht so zeigen, wie sie sich eben zeigen, denn einmal ist man hinten und dann ist man vorn und dann geht man herum. Das ist aber alles nicht der Fall. Es stimmt nichts von dem, was in einen Raum von den gewöhnlichen drei abstrakten Dimensionen von unserem Sonnensystem hineingezeichnet wird. Man muß sich durchaus klar sein, daß man, ebenso wie beim Menschen, sich sagen muß: Will man den Menschen als ganzen Menschen begreifen, so muß man von den physischen Kräften zu den übersinnlichen Kräften gehen. Ebenso muß man, will man ein Sonnensystem begreifen, über die drei Dimensionen hinausgehen in andere Dimensionalität hinein. Das heißt, man kann nicht ein gewöhnliches Sonnensystem zeichnen im dreidimensionalen Raum (Tafel 21, Mitte). Alle diese Planiglobien und so weiter, die haben wir so aufzufassen, daß wir sagen: Da, wo in einem solchen Planiglobium der Saturn ist, da ist, wenn wir nach unserm gewöhnlichen schematischen Sonnensystem irgendwo Merkur haben, nicht der wirkliche Merkur, sondern sein Schatten, seine bloße Projektion.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":533,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/201/1920-05-02/p015"}],"english":["GA 201/1920-05-02/p016"],"method":"length","confidence":"high","correspondence":"established","length_check":{"de_words":533,"en_words":525,"ratio":0.98,"partial":false},"pairing_state":"proposed","verified":false},"witness_completeness":{"ratio":0.95,"band":"comparable","note":null,"word_count":4293,"original_word_count":4519,"may_be_abridged":false},"witness_quality":{"translator":{"scope":"unit","status":"recorded","translator":"George and Mary Adams","identified_edition":"RSP1972","book_title":"Man: Hieroglyph of the Universe","publisher":"Rudolf Steiner Press","publisher_inferred":true,"match_score":1.0,"source_url":"https://www.rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA201/English/RSP1972/19200502p01.html","evidence":"lecture_page_line","publisher_note":"The publisher is inferred from the edition code in this lecture's source URL, not stated by the source page. The translator IS verified for this lecture: its own source names the translator (evidence: the lecture's page, rsarchive's lecture list, or the cover of the book it was published in), and that page's text was matched against this unit (see match_score and source_url). Cite the translator with confidence; attribute the publisher only as probable."},"entity_parity":{"status":"ok","checked_against":["GA 201/1920-05-02/p015"],"missing_from_translation":[],"present_only_in_translation":[],"bead_confidence":"high","note":"Every load-bearing name in the German counterpart appears in this English passage. That is a check on NAMES only: a translation can keep every name and still reverse who acts on whom, change a number, or soften a claim. Read the German for anything you intend to rest an argument on."},"note":"quote_safe certifies the bytes of this text. This block is about the translation as a WITNESS: who made it, and whether it carries the same names as the original. 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