{"corpus":"steiner","locus":"GA 210/1922-01-07/p009-p012","extent":"range","passage_number":9,"through":12,"paragraph_count":4,"first_locus":"GA 210/1922-01-07/p009","last_locus":"GA 210/1922-01-07/p012","lang":"en","edition":"English","edition_basis":null,"is_original":false,"is_default_edition":true,"title":"Lecture II","date":"1922-01-07","location":null,"alignment_confidence":"medium","alignment_reason":"beads:length","two_voice_volume":false,"translation_credit":{"scope":"unit","status":"established","translator":"Johanna Collis","identified_edition":"RSP1991","book_title":"Old and New Methods of Initiation","publisher":"Rudolf Steiner Press","publisher_inferred":true,"match_score":1.0,"source_url":"https://www.rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA210/English/RSP1991/19220107p01.html","evidence":"lecture_list_row","publisher_note":"The publisher is inferred from the edition code in this lecture's source URL, not stated by the source page. The translator IS verified for this lecture: its own source names the translator (evidence: the lecture's page, rsarchive's lecture list, or the cover of the book it was published in), and that page's text was matched against this unit (see match_score and source_url). Cite the translator with confidence; attribute the publisher only as probable."},"edition_coverage":{"de":["original"],"en":["English"]},"record":{"record_type":"unknown","scope":"volume","note":"How this text was taken down (shorthand transcript, listeners' notes or manuscript) is not on record here. Unknown is not an assurance of a stenogram: check the edition's own notes before resting an argument on one word.","evidence":null,"evidence_translation":null,"evidence_source":null},"witness_completeness":{"ratio":1.01,"band":"comparable","note":null,"word_count":3836,"original_word_count":3780,"may_be_abridged":false},"site_heading":"Christ and Global Unity: East-West Spiritual Contributions","site_heading_note":"A heading the site wrote for this unit from a summary of it; not in the edition, and not the words of Rudolf Steiner or of the translator. Cite the unit by its title and locus, never by this heading, and do not quote it.","url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/210/1922-01-07/p009-p012","json_url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/210/1922-01-07/p009-p012.json","lecture_url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/210/1922-01-07#p009","word_count":783,"quote_safe":true,"passages":[{"passage_number":9,"locus":"GA 210/1922-01-07/p009","text":"Let us turn now to the forces of the East. Here, what is made clearest to us is the following: If, out of the forces of the East, we want to attempt to describe Christianity, or indeed anything divine and spiritual, in sharp, clearly-defined terms, our efforts will be invain. Starting with Russia and going eastwards through Asia, the whole of the East brings forth forces in its peoples which are not capable of rising up to spiritual, divine realms in sharply defined concepts. The forces here are suitable for rising up to the spirit out of the depths of feeling.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":101,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/210/1922-01-07/p009","german_anchor":{"de_prefix":"1922-01-07","de_passages":[{"locus":"GA 210/1922-01-07/p009","url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/210/1922-01-07/p009"}],"bead_confidence":"medium","pairing_state":"proposed","verified":false,"length_check":{"de_words":98,"en_words":101,"ratio":1.03,"partial":false},"correspondence":"established","note":"English passage numbering is edition-relative, so the same number need not name the same paragraph in the German. 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Cite the translator with confidence; attribute the publisher only as probable."},"entity_parity":{"status":"discrepancy","checked_against":["GA 210/1922-01-07/p009"],"missing_from_translation":[],"present_only_in_translation":["Christ"],"bead_confidence":"medium","bead_length_ratio":1.03,"likely_cause":"unresolved","note":"NAME MISMATCH between this English passage and its German counterpart. A name the German carries is absent here (or a name appears here that the German does not carry). Two things cause this and they need telling apart: the translation really drops or reassigns what the original distinguishes, OR the paragraph alignment paired the wrong passages. `bead_confidence` does NOT settle which: this corpus's embedding aligner pairs topically-related paragraphs at full confidence, and a sampled high-confidence mismatch proved to be a wrong pairing. Read the German passages listed and confirm they are counterparts BEFORE drawing any conclusion about the translation."},"note":"quote_safe certifies the bytes of this text. This block is about the translation as a WITNESS: who made it, and whether it carries the same names as the original. See witness_completeness for how much of the original this witness holds."}},{"passage_number":10,"locus":"GA 210/1922-01-07/p010","text":"In order to describe Christianity in a manner befitting the West we need philosophy, we need a concept of the world which is clothed in modern thought forms. But to describe Christianity with the forces of the East we cannot find such thought forms if we remain at the level of outer nationality. If we remain in the external, sense-perceptible world we have to grasp other means. For instance, we have to describe the feelings which are found as soon as we start going further and further eastwards, even in the regions of central Europe bordering on the East. Look at the living rooms of simple people and see the altar with the Mother of God in the corner. See how the image of the Mother of God is greeted by visitors as they arrive. Everywhere the first greeting is for the Mother of God, and only then are greetings exchanged with the people in the room. This is something that emanates from all the forces of the human being, with the exception of those of abstract ideas. There exists a radical contrast between West and East in the inmost feelings for what is divine and spiritual. Yet all these forces are root forces which can develop further, which can put forth leaves and shoots and finally bear fruit, if only they can come to a fundamental understanding of themselves.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":230,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/210/1922-01-07/p010","german_anchor":{"de_prefix":"1922-01-07","de_passages":[{"locus":"GA 210/1922-01-07/p010","url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/210/1922-01-07/p010"}],"bead_confidence":"medium","pairing_state":"proposed","verified":false,"length_check":{"de_words":225,"en_words":230,"ratio":1.02,"partial":false},"correspondence":"established","note":"English passage numbering is edition-relative, so the same number need not name the same paragraph in the German. 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Cite the translator with confidence; attribute the publisher only as probable."},"entity_parity":{"status":"discrepancy","checked_against":["GA 210/1922-01-07/p010"],"missing_from_translation":[],"present_only_in_translation":["Christ"],"bead_confidence":"medium","bead_length_ratio":1.02,"likely_cause":"unresolved","note":"NAME MISMATCH between this English passage and its German counterpart. A name the German carries is absent here (or a name appears here that the German does not carry). Two things cause this and they need telling apart: the translation really drops or reassigns what the original distinguishes, OR the paragraph alignment paired the wrong passages. `bead_confidence` does NOT settle which: this corpus's embedding aligner pairs topically-related paragraphs at full confidence, and a sampled high-confidence mismatch proved to be a wrong pairing. Read the German passages listed and confirm they are counterparts BEFORE drawing any conclusion about the translation."},"note":"quote_safe certifies the bytes of this text. This block is about the translation as a WITNESS: who made it, and whether it carries the same names as the original. See witness_completeness for how much of the original this witness holds."}},{"passage_number":11,"locus":"GA 210/1922-01-07/p011","text":"The West is capable of reaching a conception and a feeling of the Father God in a manner which befits the new human spirit, a conception and a feeling beside which those other divine spiritual beings, the Son and the Spirit, can stand. But above all it is the task of the West to contribute to the world concepts and feelings about the Father God which are different from those possible in earlier times, when only vague presentiments could be achieved in this respect. On the other hand, if the forces mainly present in the East are developed—the forces which can only be described suitably in what might be called a non-intellectual way with the help of external gestures—if these forces are developed with the feelings and will impulses they entail, and if they take up also the forces streaming towards them from the West, they will be able to come to a fitting concept and a fitting feeling of the Son God. In this way mankind's development into the future can only be rightly understood when the things that are achieved in the different regions of the earth are taken to be contributions to a total outcome.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":198,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/210/1922-01-07/p011","german_anchor":{"de_prefix":"1922-01-07","de_passages":[{"locus":"GA 210/1922-01-07/p011","url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/210/1922-01-07/p011"}],"bead_confidence":"medium","pairing_state":"proposed","verified":false,"length_check":{"de_words":184,"en_words":198,"ratio":1.08,"partial":false},"correspondence":"established","note":"English passage numbering is edition-relative, so the same number need not name the same paragraph in the German. 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Cite the translator with confidence; attribute the publisher only as probable."},"entity_parity":{"status":"ok","checked_against":["GA 210/1922-01-07/p011"],"missing_from_translation":[],"present_only_in_translation":[],"bead_confidence":"medium","note":"Every load-bearing name in the German counterpart appears in this English passage. That is a check on NAMES only: a translation can keep every name and still reverse who acts on whom, change a number, or soften a claim. Read the German for anything you intend to rest an argument on."},"note":"quote_safe certifies the bytes of this text. This block is about the translation as a WITNESS: who made it, and whether it carries the same names as the original. See witness_completeness for how much of the original this witness holds."}},{"passage_number":12,"locus":"GA 210/1922-01-07/p012","text":"Especially the more outstanding spirits in the West—though mostly they are not aware of this themselves—may be seen to be struggling for a concept of the Father God, a concept arising from the foundations of natural science. And in the East we see in the external gestures of the people, in what comes out of their feelings and their will, how they are wrestling for an understanding of the Son God, the Christ. The middle region stands between these two extremes. This is shown clearly by what has been developing more recently in the culture of the middle region. It is characteristic of modern theology in Central Europe that it is uncertain in its understanding of the Father and also in its understanding of the Son, the Christ. Endeavours to find such an understanding are taken immensely earnestly. But this very earnestness has caused the endeavours to be split in two separate directions. On the one hand we see knowledge developing, and on the other we see faith. We see how knowledge is to contain only what applies to the sense-perceptible world and everything that belongs to it. And we see how faith, which must not be allowed to become knowledge, is allotted everything that makes up man's relationship to what is divine and spiritual. These divergent endeavours express the quest, a quest which cannot achieve an adequate concept and feeling for either the Father God or the Son God without joining forces with the other regions of the earth, with East and West.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":254,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/210/1922-01-07/p012","german_anchor":{"de_prefix":"1922-01-07","de_passages":[{"locus":"GA 210/1922-01-07/p012","url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/210/1922-01-07/p012"}],"bead_confidence":"medium","pairing_state":"proposed","verified":false,"length_check":{"de_words":265,"en_words":254,"ratio":0.96,"partial":false},"correspondence":"established","note":"English passage numbering is edition-relative, so the same number need not name the same paragraph in the German. 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Cite the translator with confidence; attribute the publisher only as probable."},"entity_parity":{"status":"ok","checked_against":["GA 210/1922-01-07/p012"],"missing_from_translation":[],"present_only_in_translation":[],"bead_confidence":"medium","note":"Every load-bearing name in the German counterpart appears in this English passage. That is a check on NAMES only: a translation can keep every name and still reverse who acts on whom, change a number, or soften a claim. Read the German for anything you intend to rest an argument on."},"note":"quote_safe certifies the bytes of this text. This block is about the translation as a WITNESS: who made it, and whether it carries the same names as the original. 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Schon von Rußland an genommen und durch Asien dann weiter hindurch bringt der ganze Osten solche Volkskräfte hervor, welche nicht in der Lage sind, in scharf konturierten Begriffen sich zu dem Göttlich-Geistigen zu erheben, welche aber dazu veranlagt sind, aus den Gefühlstiefen heraus diese Erhebung zu den geistigen Kräften zu vollziehen.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":98,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/210/1922-01-07/p009"},{"locus":"GA 210/1922-01-07/p010","passage_number":10,"text":"Will man im Sinn des Westens das Christentum charakterisieren, so braucht man Philosophie, braucht man eine in moderne Gedankenformen gekleidete Weltanschauung. Will man das Christentum mit den Kräften des Ostens charakterisieren, so findet man solche Gedankenformen nicht, wenn man beim Volkstümlichen stehenbleibt. Man muß da, wenn man im äußeren sinnlichen Leben bleibt, zu anderem greifen. Man muß etwa die Empfindungen charakterisieren, die man sogleich findet, wenn man von dem Westen nach dem Osten immer weiter und weiter kommt, und die man schon in den Gegenden Mitteleuropas, die an den Osten angrenzen, finden kann. Man muß sich die Stuben der einfachen Leute ansehen, welche in einer Ecke einen Altar mit dem Muttergottesbilde haben; man muß sich ansehen, wie dieses Muttergottesbild behandelt wird von den Besuchern, die da ankommen. Der erste Gruß, der da überall gegeben wird, ist der an das Muttergottesbild; dann werden erst die Menschen, die etwa in der Stube sind, begrüßt. Es ist etwas, das aus allen andern Kräften der menschlichen Wesenheit hervorgeht, als etwa aus den abstrakt-ideellen Kräften. Es ist ein radikaler Gegensatz vorhanden zwischen dem innersten Empfinden gegenüber dem Göttlich-Geistigen wie es im Westen auf der einen Seite, im Osten auf der andern Seite ist. Aber alle diese Kräfte sind Wurzelkräfte, die sich weiter entwickeln können, die Blätter und Triebe und zuletzt Früchte treiben können, wenn sie sich nur gründlich selber verstehen.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":225,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/210/1922-01-07/p010"},{"locus":"GA 210/1922-01-07/p011","passage_number":11,"text":"Der Westen ist in der Lage, in einer dem neueren Menschengeiste angemessenen Form wiederum eine solche Vorstellung, eine solche Empfindung vom Vatergotte zu erlangen, neben welcher die andern göttlich-geistigen Wesenhaftigkeiten des Sohnes und des Geistes stehen können. Aber vor allen Dingen ist es die Aufgabe des Westens, jenen Beitrag zu liefern, der in anderer Weise zu Vorstellungen, zu Empfindungen über den Vatergott hinführt, als das frühere Zeiten gekonnt haben, die nur Ahnungen in dieser Beziehung erweckt haben. Und wenn diejenigen Kräfte sich ausbilden, welche im Osten vorzugsweise vorhanden sind, und die man nur in jener, man möchte sagen unverstandesmäßigen Art charakterisieren kann, daß man eine äußere Gebärde anführen muß, wenn man sie treffen will, diese Empfindungen, diese Gefühle, und die Willensimpulse, die sie im Gefolge haben, die werden, wenn sie sich weiter entwickeln, wenn sie aufnehmen die Kräfte, die ihnen vom Westen her zustrahlen, einen angemessenen Begriff, eine angemessene Empfindung von dem Sohnesgott entwickeln können. So daß man die Entwickelung in die Zukunft hinein nur richtig verstehen kann, wenn man das, was auf einzelnen Erdengebieten geleistet werden kann, als Beiträge auffaßt zu einem Gesamtergebnis.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":184,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/210/1922-01-07/p011"},{"locus":"GA 210/1922-01-07/p012","passage_number":12,"text":"Wenn wir heute gerade die hervorragendsten westlichen Geister betrachten, so sehen wir sie, wenn sie sich auch oftmals oder meistens dessen selbst nicht bewußt sind, in einem Ringen nach dem Begriff des Vatergottes, der sich aus den naturwissenschaftlichen Untergründen heraus ergibt. Wenn wir nach dem Osten hinüberschauen, sehen wir, man möchte sagen aus den äußeren Gebärden der Menschen heraus, aus dem was aus Gemüt und Wille kommt, ein Ringen nach einem Erfassen des Sohnesgottes, des Christus. Die Mitte ist hineingestellt zwischen diese beiden Extreme. Und gerade das, was im Laufe der neueren Zeit in der Kultur der Mitte sich entwickelt hat, zeigt uns dieses Hineingestelltsein. Das Charakteristische gerade der modernsten Theologie der europäischen Mitte ist dieses, daß sie überall schwankt sowohl in bezug auf eine Vater- Auffassung wie in bezug auf eine Sohnes- oder Christus-Auffassung. Es wird das Streben nach einer solchen Auffassung ungeheuer ernst genommen. Aber gerade der Ernst dieses Strebens hat dieses Streben selber in zwei gesonderte Glieder auseinander getrieben. Wir sehen auf der einen Seite das Wissen sich entwickeln, und auf der andern Seite sehen wir den Glauben. Wir sehen, wie dem Wissen nur zugeteilt werden soll, was sich auf die Sinneswelt und alles, was zur Sinneswelt gehört, erstreckt, und wir sehen, wie einem Glauben, der nicht Wissen werden soll, zugeteilt wird alles, was des Menschen Verhältnis zum Göttlich-Geistigen ausmacht. In diesem zwiespältigen Streben drückt sich das aus, was auf der Suche ist, was aber ohne die Vereinigung mit den andern Gebieten der Erde, mit Ost und West, weder die ihnen adäquate Vorstellung und Empfindung des Vatergottes noch des Sohnesgottes bekommen kann.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":265,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/210/1922-01-07/p012"}],"beads":[{"from":[9],"to":[9],"confidence":"medium","pairing_state":"proposed"},{"from":[10],"to":[10],"confidence":"medium","pairing_state":"proposed"},{"from":[11],"to":[11],"confidence":"medium","pairing_state":"proposed"},{"from":[12],"to":[12],"confidence":"medium","pairing_state":"proposed"}],"note":"Paired by the paragraph aligner; each language numbers its own paragraphs. A bead at either end of the span can carry text beyond it (the `from` numbers show what each bead covers)."}}