{"corpus":"steiner","locus":"GA 225/1923-09-22_02/p007-p014","extent":"range","passage_number":7,"through":14,"paragraph_count":8,"first_locus":"GA 225/1923-09-22_02/p007","last_locus":"GA 225/1923-09-22_02/p014","lang":"en","edition":"English","edition_basis":null,"is_original":false,"is_default_edition":true,"title":"XI. The World of Dreams as a Transitional Current between the Physical-Natural World and the World of Moral Concepts","date":"1923-09-22","location":null,"alignment_confidence":"high","alignment_reason":"beads:length","two_voice_volume":false,"translation_credit":{"scope":"unit","status":"established","translator":"Steiner Online Library","identified_edition":"SOL2024","book_title":"Cultural Phenomena — Three Perspectives of Anthroposophy","publisher":"Steiner Online Library","publisher_inferred":true,"match_score":1.0,"source_url":"https://www.rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA225/English/SOL2024/19230922p01.html","evidence":"lecture_page_line","publisher_note":"The publisher is inferred from the edition code in this lecture's source URL, not stated by the source page. 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The dreaming person experiences what is happening as dream images so strongly as an external world that he can sometimes perceive himself within these dream images.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":84,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/225/1923-09-22_02/p007","unit_kind":{"kind":"second_translation","base_unit":"GA 225/1923-09-22","note":"A second English translation of the same lecture as 1923-09-22.","same_lecture_as":"GA 225/1923-09-22"},"witness_quality":{"translator":{"scope":"unit","status":"recorded","translator":"Steiner Online Library","identified_edition":"SOL2024","book_title":"Cultural Phenomena — Three Perspectives of Anthroposophy","publisher":"Steiner Online Library","publisher_inferred":true,"match_score":1.0,"source_url":"https://www.rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA225/English/SOL2024/19230922p01.html","evidence":"lecture_page_line","publisher_note":"The publisher is inferred from the edition code in this lecture's source URL, not stated by the source page. 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It is a poet that unfolds the strangest inclinations.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":53,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/225/1923-09-22_02/p008","unit_kind":{"kind":"second_translation","base_unit":"GA 225/1923-09-22","note":"A second English translation of the same lecture as 1923-09-22.","same_lecture_as":"GA 225/1923-09-22"},"witness_quality":{"translator":{"scope":"unit","status":"recorded","translator":"Steiner Online Library","identified_edition":"SOL2024","book_title":"Cultural Phenomena — Three Perspectives of Anthroposophy","publisher":"Steiner Online Library","publisher_inferred":true,"match_score":1.0,"source_url":"https://www.rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA225/English/SOL2024/19230922p01.html","evidence":"lecture_page_line","publisher_note":"The publisher is inferred from the edition code in this lecture's source URL, not stated by the source page. 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They have been published in such large numbers that once, when I was visiting this philosopher, where the philosopher's wife was also present, the wife told me: Yes, my husband writes so many books that one always competes with the other.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":175,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/225/1923-09-22_02/p009","unit_kind":{"kind":"second_translation","base_unit":"GA 225/1923-09-22","note":"A second English translation of the same lecture as 1923-09-22.","same_lecture_as":"GA 225/1923-09-22"},"witness_quality":{"translator":{"scope":"unit","status":"recorded","translator":"Steiner Online Library","identified_edition":"SOL2024","book_title":"Cultural Phenomena — Three Perspectives of Anthroposophy","publisher":"Steiner Online Library","publisher_inferred":true,"match_score":1.0,"source_url":"https://www.rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA225/English/SOL2024/19230922p01.html","evidence":"lecture_page_line","publisher_note":"The publisher is inferred from the edition code in this lecture's source URL, not stated by the source page. 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Now, someone else might have dreamed something else, which would have colored the experiences in a fantastic way as well.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":124,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/225/1923-09-22_02/p010","unit_kind":{"kind":"second_translation","base_unit":"GA 225/1923-09-22","note":"A second English translation of the same lecture as 1923-09-22.","same_lecture_as":"GA 225/1923-09-22"},"witness_quality":{"translator":{"scope":"unit","status":"recorded","translator":"Steiner Online Library","identified_edition":"SOL2024","book_title":"Cultural Phenomena — Three Perspectives of Anthroposophy","publisher":"Steiner Online Library","publisher_inferred":true,"match_score":1.0,"source_url":"https://www.rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA225/English/SOL2024/19230922p01.html","evidence":"lecture_page_line","publisher_note":"The publisher is inferred from the edition code in this lecture's source URL, not stated by the source page. 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It is indeed the case that many dreams are actually reflections of even the physical human interior, and one already weaves in dreams as in something that is intimately connected with one.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":80,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/225/1923-09-22_02/p011","unit_kind":{"kind":"second_translation","base_unit":"GA 225/1923-09-22","note":"A second English translation of the same lecture as 1923-09-22.","same_lecture_as":"GA 225/1923-09-22"},"witness_quality":{"translator":{"scope":"unit","status":"recorded","translator":"Steiner Online Library","identified_edition":"SOL2024","book_title":"Cultural Phenomena — Three Perspectives of Anthroposophy","publisher":"Steiner Online Library","publisher_inferred":true,"match_score":1.0,"source_url":"https://www.rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA225/English/SOL2024/19230922p01.html","evidence":"lecture_page_line","publisher_note":"The publisher is inferred from the edition code in this lecture's source URL, not stated by the source page. The translator IS verified for this lecture: its own source names the translator (evidence: the lecture's page, rsarchive's lecture list, or the cover of the book it was published in), and that page's text was matched against this unit (see match_score and source_url). Cite the translator with confidence; attribute the publisher only as probable."},"entity_parity":{"status":"ok","checked_against":["GA 225/1923-09-22_02/p011"],"missing_from_translation":[],"present_only_in_translation":[],"bead_confidence":"high","note":"Every load-bearing name in the German counterpart appears in this English passage. That is a check on NAMES only: a translation can keep every name and still reverse who acts on whom, change a number, or soften a claim. Read the German for anything you intend to rest an argument on."},"note":"quote_safe certifies the bytes of this text. This block is about the translation as a WITNESS: who made it, and whether it carries the same names as the original. See witness_completeness for how much of the original this witness holds."}},{"passage_number":12,"locus":"GA 225/1923-09-22_02/p012","text":"Now one gradually becomes really aware of how the dream arranges the experiences in its own way. If you keep this very clearly in mind, you will gradually come to know that you do live in this dreaming after all. Only in this dreaming you live in the times when you either just go out of the physical body and the etheric body or when you return to them. It is actually in these transitions between waking and sleeping, sleeping and waking that the dream takes place. I have repeatedly given examples showing that the most important part of the dream takes place during waking and falling asleep. Among the characteristic examples, I have given this one – you remember it – in which a student dreams that two students are standing at the door of a lecture hall. One of them says something to the other that, after the thing called a comment, absolutely demands satisfaction. It comes to a duel. Everything is vividly dreamt, going out to the duel, first choosing seconds and so on, until the shooting begins. He still hears the bang, but it immediately turns into the blow that a chair, which he has knocked over at that moment, has done. So at that moment he wakes up. This fall of the chair triggered the whole dream. The dream thus fades at the moment of waking, it only appears to do so because it has its own time within it, not the time that it would last. Some dreams last so long according to their inner time that you don't sleep as long as you would have to sleep if the dream lasted the time it carries within itself. Nevertheless, a dream is intimately connected with what a person experiences inwardly, but experiences inwardly down to his physical body.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":304,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/225/1923-09-22_02/p012","unit_kind":{"kind":"second_translation","base_unit":"GA 225/1923-09-22","note":"A second English translation of the same lecture as 1923-09-22.","same_lecture_as":"GA 225/1923-09-22"},"witness_quality":{"translator":{"scope":"unit","status":"recorded","translator":"Steiner Online Library","identified_edition":"SOL2024","book_title":"Cultural Phenomena — Three Perspectives of Anthroposophy","publisher":"Steiner Online Library","publisher_inferred":true,"match_score":1.0,"source_url":"https://www.rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA225/English/SOL2024/19230922p01.html","evidence":"lecture_page_line","publisher_note":"The publisher is inferred from the edition code in this lecture's source URL, not stated by the source page. 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See witness_completeness for how much of the original this witness holds."}},{"passage_number":13,"locus":"GA 225/1923-09-22_02/p013","text":"People in ancient times were well aware of such things, and for a certain kind of dream – you can read about it in the Bible yourself – the ancient Jews said: God has punished you in your kidneys. So they knew that a very specific kind of dream was connected with the function of the kidneys. On the other hand, you only need to read something like “The Seer of Prevorst” and you will find how people actually describe the damage to their organs in their dreams, people who are particularly predisposed to doing so, so that some diseased organ is symbolically visualized in powerful images, which can lead to the remedy being presented alongside this diseased organ. In ancient times this was even used to induce the patient himself, in a certain respect, to indicate his remedy from his own dream interpretation. And what was practiced in the authorized temple sleep must also be studied in this direction.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":160,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/225/1923-09-22_02/p013","unit_kind":{"kind":"second_translation","base_unit":"GA 225/1923-09-22","note":"A second English translation of the same lecture as 1923-09-22.","same_lecture_as":"GA 225/1923-09-22"},"witness_quality":{"translator":{"scope":"unit","status":"recorded","translator":"Steiner Online Library","identified_edition":"SOL2024","book_title":"Cultural Phenomena — Three Perspectives of Anthroposophy","publisher":"Steiner Online Library","publisher_inferred":true,"match_score":1.0,"source_url":"https://www.rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA225/English/SOL2024/19230922p01.html","evidence":"lecture_page_line","publisher_note":"The publisher is inferred from the edition code in this lecture's source URL, not stated by the source page. 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See witness_completeness for how much of the original this witness holds."}},{"passage_number":14,"locus":"GA 225/1923-09-22_02/p014","text":"When we look at the whole relationship between dreams and external experiences, we have to say that dreams protest against the laws of nature. From waking to sleeping, we live by natural laws. Dreams pay no heed to these natural laws. In a sense, the dream turns its nose up at the laws of nature. And what is being researched as the laws of nature for the external physical world is not the lawfulness of the dream. The dream is a living protest against the laws of nature. If, on the one hand, you ask nature what is true, it answers in the laws of nature. If you ask the dream what is true, it does not answer in terms of natural laws. And the person who judges the course of a dream according to natural laws will say that the dream is lying. In this ordinary sense, it does lie. But this dream does come close to the spiritual and supersensible in man, even if the images of the dream belong to the subconscious, as one can say in the abstract, and one does not judge it correctly if one does not know that it comes close to the inner spiritual reality of the person.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":206,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/225/1923-09-22_02/p014","unit_kind":{"kind":"second_translation","base_unit":"GA 225/1923-09-22","note":"A second English translation of the same lecture as 1923-09-22.","same_lecture_as":"GA 225/1923-09-22"},"witness_quality":{"translator":{"scope":"unit","status":"recorded","translator":"Steiner Online Library","identified_edition":"SOL2024","book_title":"Cultural Phenomena — Three Perspectives of Anthroposophy","publisher":"Steiner Online Library","publisher_inferred":true,"match_score":1.0,"source_url":"https://www.rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA225/English/SOL2024/19230922p01.html","evidence":"lecture_page_line","publisher_note":"The publisher is inferred from the edition code in this lecture's source URL, not stated by the source page. 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Der träumende Mensch empfindet das, was sich als Traumbilder abspielt, so stark sogar als eine Außenwelt, daß er zuweilen sich selber innerhalb dieser Traumbilder wahrnehmen kann.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":75,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/225/1923-09-22_02/p007"},{"locus":"GA 225/1923-09-22_02/p008","passage_number":8,"text":"Was uns aber heute an diesen Traumbildern besonders interessieren soll, das ist dieses: Nicht wahr, wir durchleben das gewöhnliche Leben, Erlebnis stellt sich neben Erlebnis hin. Der Traum schüttelt diese Erlebnisse durcheinander. Er beachtet wenig, was der Mensch im wachenden Dasein als Zusammenhang der Erlebnisse hat. Er ist ein Dichter, der die merkwürdigsten Neigungen entfaltet.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":55,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/225/1923-09-22_02/p008"},{"locus":"GA 225/1923-09-22_02/p009","passage_number":9,"text":"Ein Philosoph erzählte von sich, er träume sehr häufig, daß er ein Buch geschrieben habe, das er in Wirklichkeit nicht geschrieben hat, aber im Traum glaubte er, daß er das Buch geschrieben habe, das Buch, das besser sei als alle seine übrigen Bücher. Doch gleichzeitig träumt ihm, daß das Manuskript verlorengegangen ist. Er kann es nicht finden, er hat es verlegt. Und nun eilt er von Schublade zu Schublade, alles durchsucht er im Traum, er findet das Manuskript nicht. Es beschleicht ihn im Traum ein ungeheuer unbehagliches Gefühl, daß er just dieses Manuskript seines allerbesten Buches verloren habe und vielleicht nicht wieder finden könne. Über diesem Unbehagen wacht er dann auf. Natürlich ist das schon ein Erlebnis, gerade bei dem Philosophen, den ich meine, der viele Bücher geschrieben hat. Sie sind in so großer Anzahl erschienen, daß einmal, als ich einen Besuch bei diesem Philosophen machte, wo auch die Frau des Philosophen anwesend war, mir die Frau sagte: Ja, mein Mann, der schreibt so viele Bücher, daß immer eines dem anderen Konkurrenz macht.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":173,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/225/1923-09-22_02/p009"},{"locus":"GA 225/1923-09-22_02/p010","passage_number":10,"text":"Es war nämlich im Hause dieses Philosophen immer auch ein merkwürdig praktischer Sinn, so daß ich einmal, als ich mit einem Verleger einen Besuch machte bei diesem Philosophen, eigentlich etwas ärgerlich wurde, denn ich wollte mit ihm erkenntnistheoretische Probleme besprechen. Nun hatte ich den Verleger mitgeschleppt, eigentlich hatte er sich mitgeschleppt, und der Philosoph fing nun gleich an: Können Sie aus Ihrer Sachkenntnis heraus mir sagen, ob sehr viele Exemplare dieses oder jenes Werkes — welches, habe ich jetzt vergessen - von mir bei den Antiquaren zu haben sind? - Also es war ein sehr praktischer Sinn gerade im Hause dieses Philosophen. Ich will das gar nicht verachten, ich erzähle es nur als etwas Charakteristisches. Nun, irgendein anderer hätte vielleicht etwas anderes geträumt, was ebenso die Erlebnisse ins Phantastische koloriert.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":130,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/225/1923-09-22_02/p010"},{"locus":"GA 225/1923-09-22_02/p011","passage_number":11,"text":"Es wird jeder wissen können, daß der Traum nicht so vor sich geht wie das äußere Erleben, sondern daß andere Zusammenhänge geschaffen werden im Traume. Aber auf der anderen Seite wird auch das jeder wissen können, wie der Traum doch in einem innigen Zusammenhange steht mit dem, was der Mensch eigentlich ist. Es ist ja tatsächlich so, daß viele Träume eigentlich nur Abspiegelungen sogar des körperlichen menschlichen Inneren sind, und man webt schon im Traume als in etwas, das mit einem in einem innigen Zusammenhange steht.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":86,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/225/1923-09-22_02/p011"},{"locus":"GA 225/1923-09-22_02/p012","passage_number":12,"text":"Nun wird man ja nach und nach wirklich gewahr, wie der Traum die Erlebnisse in seiner Art zusammenstellt. Wenn man sich das ganz deutlich vorhält, so kommt man allmählich darauf zu wissen, in diesem Träumen lebt man doch selbst. Nur lebt man in diesem Träumen eben in den Zeiten, wo man entweder gerade herausgeht aus dem physischen Leib und dem Ätherleib oder wo man wiederum hinein zurückkehrt. Immer in diesen Übergängen zwischen Wachen und Schlafen, Schlafen und Wachen spielt sich eigentlich der Traum ab. Ich habe wiederholt Beispiele angeführt, die zeigen, daß das Hauptsächlichste des Traumes sich während des Aufwachens und Einschlafens abspielt. Ich habe ja unter den charakteristischen Beispielen dieses angeführt - Sie erinnern sich daran -, wie ein Student träumt, daß zwei Studenten an der Türe eines Hörsaales stehen. Da sagt der eine etwas zu dem anderen, was nach dem Ding, das man Komment nennt, unbedingt Satisfaktion fordert. Es kommt zum Duell. Es wird alles lebendig geträumt, das Hinausgehen zum Duell, zuerst noch das Wählen der Sekundanten und so weiter, bis es zum Losschießen kommt. Er hört noch den Knall, aber es verwandelt sich der Knall sofort, indem er aufwacht, in den Schlag, den ein Stuhl, den er in diesem Momente umgeworten hat, gemacht hat. Also in diesem Momente wacht er ja schon auf. Dieser Fall des Stuhles hat den ganzen Traum ausgelöst. Der Traum verfließt also im Momente des Aufwachens, stellt sich nur so, da er seine eigene Zeit in sich hat, also nicht etwa die Zeit, die er dauern würde. Manche Träume dauern ja nach ihrer inneren Zeit so lange, daß man gar nicht so lange schläft, als man schlafen müßte, wenn der Traum die Zeit, die er in sich trägt, entsprechend dauern würde. Dennoch, der Traum steht in innigem Zusammenhange mit dem, was der Mensch innerlich erlebt, aber innerlich erlebt bis in seinen physischen Leib hinunter.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":311,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/225/1923-09-22_02/p012"},{"locus":"GA 225/1923-09-22_02/p013","passage_number":13,"text":"Solche Dinge haben ja die Menschen der älteren Zeiten recht gut gewußt, und für eine gewisse Art von Träumen - Sie können das selbst in der Bibel lesen - sagten die alten Juden: Gott hat dich in deinen Nieren gestraft. - Man wußte also, daß mit der Funktion der Niere eine ganz bestimmte Art von Träumen zusammenhängt. Auf der anderen Seite brauchen Sie ja nur so etwas wie «Die Seherin von Prevorst» nachzulesen, und Sie werden finden, wie Menschen tatsächlich die Schadhaftigkeit ihrer Organe aus dem Traum beschreiben, Menschen, die besonders dazu veranlagt sind, so daß also irgendein krankhaftes Organ symbolisch in mächtigen Bildern zur Anschauung kommt, was dazu führen kann, daß dann sich neben dieses krankhafte Organ zugleich das Heilmittel hinstellt. In älteren Zeiten wurde dies sogar benützt, um in einer gewissen Beziehung den Kranken selbst dazu zu veranlassen, sein Heilmittel aus seiner eigenen Traumeserklärung anzugeben. Und dasjenige, was in dem Berechtigten des Tempelschlafes geübt wurde, muß nach dieser Richtung hin auch studiert werden.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":165,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/225/1923-09-22_02/p013"},{"locus":"GA 225/1923-09-22_02/p014","passage_number":14,"text":"Wenn man dieses ganze Verhältnis des Traumes zu den äußeren Erlebnissen sich anschaut, muß man eben sagen: Der Traum protestiert gegen die Naturgesetze. Nach Naturgesetzen leben wir vom Aufwachen bis zum Einschlafen. Der Traum kehrt sich nicht an diese Naturgesetze. Der Traum dreht gewissermaßen den Naturgesetzen eine Nase. Und das, was als Naturgesetze für die äußere physische Welt erforscht wird, ist nicht die Gesetzmäßigkeit des Traumes. Der Traum hat in sich einen lebendigen Protest gegen die Naturgesetze. Frägt man auf der einen Seite die Natur, was wahr ist, so antwortet sie in Naturgesetzen. Frägt man den Traum, was wahr ist, so antwortet er nicht in Naturgesetzen. Und derjenige, der nach den Naturgesetzen einen Traumverlauf beurteilt, wird eben sagen, der Traum lügt. In diesem gewöhnlichen Sinn lügt er ja auch. Aber er kommt heran, dieser Traum, an das Geistig-Übersinnliche im Menschen, wenn auch die Bilder des Traumes dem Unterbewußtsein, wie man abstrakt sagen kann, angehören, und man beurteilt ihn nicht richtig, wenn man nicht weiß, er kommt an die innere geistige Wirklichkeit des Menschen heran.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":174,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/225/1923-09-22_02/p014"}],"beads":[{"from":[7],"to":[7],"confidence":"high"},{"from":[8],"to":[8],"confidence":"high"},{"from":[9],"to":[9],"confidence":"high"},{"from":[10],"to":[10],"confidence":"high"},{"from":[11],"to":[11],"confidence":"high"},{"from":[12],"to":[12],"confidence":"high"},{"from":[13],"to":[13],"confidence":"high"},{"from":[14],"to":[14],"confidence":"high"}],"note":"Paired by the paragraph aligner; each language numbers its own paragraphs. A bead at either end of the span can carry text beyond it (the `from` numbers show what each bead covers)."}}