{"corpus":"steiner","locus":"GA 235/1924-03-23/p011-p016","extent":"range","passage_number":11,"through":16,"paragraph_count":6,"first_locus":"GA 235/1924-03-23/p011","last_locus":"GA 235/1924-03-23/p016","lang":"en","edition":"English","edition_basis":null,"is_original":false,"is_default_edition":true,"title":"Lecture XII","date":"1924-03-23","location":null,"alignment_confidence":"high","alignment_reason":"beads:length","two_voice_volume":false,"translation_credit":{"scope":"unit","status":"established","translator":"George Adams. Revised by M. Cotterell, C. Davy and D.S. Osmond","identified_edition":"RSP1972","book_title":"Karmic Relationships I","publisher":"Rudolf Steiner Press","publisher_inferred":true,"match_score":1.0,"source_url":"https://www.rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA235/English/RSP1972/19240323p01.html","evidence":"lecture_page_line","publisher_note":"The publisher is inferred from the edition code in this lecture's source URL, not stated by the source page. The translator IS verified for this lecture: its own source names the translator (evidence: the lecture's page, rsarchive's lecture list, or the cover of the book it was published in), and that page's text was matched against this unit (see match_score and source_url). Cite the translator with confidence; attribute the publisher only as probable."},"edition_coverage":{"de":["original"],"en":["English"]},"record":{"record_type":"unknown","scope":"volume","note":"How this text was taken down (shorthand transcript, listeners' notes or manuscript) is not on record here. Unknown is not an assurance of a stenogram: check the edition's own notes before resting an argument on one word.","evidence":null,"evidence_translation":null,"evidence_source":null},"witness_completeness":{"ratio":1.02,"band":"comparable","note":null,"word_count":6096,"original_word_count":5961,"may_be_abridged":false},"site_heading":"Ancient Initiates Reincarnated: Garibaldi, Lessing, Byron","site_heading_note":"A heading the site wrote for this unit from a summary of it; not in the edition, and not the words of Rudolf Steiner or of the translator. Cite the unit by its title and locus, never by this heading, and do not quote it.","url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/235/1924-03-23/p011-p016","json_url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/235/1924-03-23/p011-p016.json","lecture_url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/235/1924-03-23#p011","word_count":1054,"quote_safe":true,"passages":[{"passage_number":11,"locus":"GA 235/1924-03-23/p011","text":"Now I come back to the question: Where are the earlier Initiates? For certainly it will be said that they are not to be found. But, my dear friends—I shall have to say something paradoxical here!—if it were possible for a number of human beings to be born today at the age of seventeen or eighteen, so that when they descended from the spiritual world they would in some way or other find and enter seventeen- or eighteen-year-old bodies, or if at least human beings could in some way be spared from going to school (as schools are constituted today), then you would find that those who were once Initiates would be able to appear in the human being of the present day. But just as little as it is possible, under the conditions obtaining on earth today, for an Initiate, when he needs bread, to nourish himself from a piece of ice, just as little is it possible for the wisdom of an older time to manifest *directly*, in the form that you would expect, in a body that has received education—in the present-day accepted sense of the word—up to his seventeenth or eighteenth year. Nowhere in the world is this possible; at all events, nowhere in the civilised world. We have here to take account of things that lie altogether beyond the outlook of the educated men of modern times.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":232,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/235/1924-03-23/p011","german_anchor":{"de_prefix":"1924-03-23","de_passages":[{"locus":"GA 235/1924-03-23/p013","url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/235/1924-03-23/p013"}],"bead_confidence":"high","length_check":{"de_words":213,"en_words":232,"ratio":1.09,"partial":false},"correspondence":"established","note":"English passage numbering is edition-relative, so the same number need not name the same paragraph in the German. The German original passage(s) above are the edition-invariant anchor — fetch them (lang='de') to verify wording before quoting across editions."},"witness_quality":{"translator":{"scope":"unit","status":"recorded","translator":"George Adams. Revised by M. Cotterell, C. Davy and D.S. Osmond","identified_edition":"RSP1972","book_title":"Karmic Relationships I","publisher":"Rudolf Steiner Press","publisher_inferred":true,"match_score":1.0,"source_url":"https://www.rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA235/English/RSP1972/19240323p01.html","evidence":"lecture_page_line","publisher_note":"The publisher is inferred from the edition code in this lecture's source URL, not stated by the source page. The translator IS verified for this lecture: its own source names the translator (evidence: the lecture's page, rsarchive's lecture list, or the cover of the book it was published in), and that page's text was matched against this unit (see match_score and source_url). 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See witness_completeness for how much of the original this witness holds."}},{"passage_number":12,"locus":"GA 235/1924-03-23/p012","text":"When, as is the custom today, a child is obliged as early as the sixth or seventh year to learn to read and write, it is torture for the soul that wants to develop and unfold in accordance with its own nature. I can only repeat what I have already told you in my autobiography, that I owe the removal of many hindrances to the circumstance that when I was twelve years old I was still unable to write properly. For the capacity of being able to write, in the way that is demanded today, kills certain qualities in the human being.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":102,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/235/1924-03-23/p012","german_anchor":{"de_prefix":"1924-03-23","de_passages":[{"locus":"GA 235/1924-03-23/p014","url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/235/1924-03-23/p014"}],"bead_confidence":"high","length_check":{"de_words":96,"en_words":102,"ratio":1.06,"partial":false},"correspondence":"established","note":"English passage numbering is edition-relative, so the same number need not name the same paragraph in the German. The German original passage(s) above are the edition-invariant anchor — fetch them (lang='de') to verify wording before quoting across editions."},"witness_quality":{"translator":{"scope":"unit","status":"recorded","translator":"George Adams. Revised by M. Cotterell, C. Davy and D.S. Osmond","identified_edition":"RSP1972","book_title":"Karmic Relationships I","publisher":"Rudolf Steiner Press","publisher_inferred":true,"match_score":1.0,"source_url":"https://www.rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA235/English/RSP1972/19240323p01.html","evidence":"lecture_page_line","publisher_note":"The publisher is inferred from the edition code in this lecture's source URL, not stated by the source page. The translator IS verified for this lecture: its own source names the translator (evidence: the lecture's page, rsarchive's lecture list, or the cover of the book it was published in), and that page's text was matched against this unit (see match_score and source_url). Cite the translator with confidence; attribute the publisher only as probable."},"entity_parity":{"status":"ok","checked_against":["GA 235/1924-03-23/p014"],"missing_from_translation":[],"present_only_in_translation":[],"bead_confidence":"high","note":"Every load-bearing name in the German counterpart appears in this English passage. That is a check on NAMES only: a translation can keep every name and still reverse who acts on whom, change a number, or soften a claim. Read the German for anything you intend to rest an argument on."},"note":"quote_safe certifies the bytes of this text. This block is about the translation as a WITNESS: who made it, and whether it carries the same names as the original. See witness_completeness for how much of the original this witness holds."}},{"passage_number":13,"locus":"GA 235/1924-03-23/p013","text":"It is necessary to say such a thing, paradoxical though it may sound, for it is the truth. There is no help for it—it is a fact. Hence it is that a highly evolved individual can be recognised in his reincarnation only if one looks at manifestations of human nature which are not directly apparent *in* a man, if he has gone through a modern education, but reveal themselves, so to speak, *behind* him. We have in Garibaldi a most striking example of this. What did civilised men, including Cavour, or at all events the followers of Cavour, think of Garibaldi? They regarded him as a madcap with whom it was useless to discuss anything in a sensible manner. That is a point of which we must take note; for there was much in his arguments and in his whole way of speaking that was bound to appear illogical, to say the least, to people enamoured of modern civilisation. Very often the things he says simply do not hold together. But when we are able to see behind a personality, and can look at that which in an earlier earth-life was able to enter into the body, but in *this* earth-life, because modern civilisation makes the bodies unfit, *was not able to enter into the body*—then we can begin to have an idea of what such a personality really is. Otherwise we are right off the track, for what is of most importance in such a personality lies right behind the things he can reveal externally. A good conventional man of the world, who simply expresses himself in the way he has learned to do, and in whom we see merely a reflection of the teaching and education he has received at school and elsewhere—such a man you can “photograph” in his moral and spiritual nature. He is there. A man, however, who comes over from other times bearing a soul filled with great and far-reaching wisdom, so that the soul cannot express itself in the body, can never be estimated with the means afforded by modern civilisation by what he does in the body. Above all, Garibaldi cannot be judged in that way. In his case it is rather like having to do—I am speaking metaphorically—with spiritualistic pictures, where a phantom becomes visible behind. With a personality like Garibaldi, you see him first as he is according to conventional standards, and behind you see something spiritual, a spirit-portrait, as it were, of that which in this incarnation cannot enter fully into the body.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":424,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/235/1924-03-23/p013","german_anchor":{"de_prefix":"1924-03-23","de_passages":[{"locus":"GA 235/1924-03-23/p015","url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/235/1924-03-23/p015"},{"locus":"GA 235/1924-03-23/p016","url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/235/1924-03-23/p016"},{"locus":"GA 235/1924-03-23/p017","url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/235/1924-03-23/p017"}],"bead_confidence":"high","length_check":{"de_words":409,"en_words":424,"ratio":1.04,"partial":false},"correspondence":"established","note":"English passage numbering is edition-relative, so the same number need not name the same paragraph in the German. 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Cite the translator with confidence; attribute the publisher only as probable."},"entity_parity":{"status":"ok","checked_against":["GA 235/1924-03-23/p015","GA 235/1924-03-23/p016","GA 235/1924-03-23/p017"],"missing_from_translation":[],"present_only_in_translation":[],"bead_confidence":"high","note":"Every load-bearing name in the German counterpart appears in this English passage. That is a check on NAMES only: a translation can keep every name and still reverse who acts on whom, change a number, or soften a claim. Read the German for anything you intend to rest an argument on."},"note":"quote_safe certifies the bytes of this text. This block is about the translation as a WITNESS: who made it, and whether it carries the same names as the original. 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A man must surely be somewhat of a stranger to earthly conventions if he finds his way into family relations through a telescope! Such a happening is certainly not usual, and it was not the only one in Garibaldi's life. In the characteristic style of his life there is something that points right away from ordinary alignment with bourgeois conventions.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":84,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/235/1924-03-23/p015","german_anchor":{"de_prefix":"1924-03-23","de_passages":[{"locus":"GA 235/1924-03-23/p018","url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/235/1924-03-23/p018"}],"bead_confidence":"high","length_check":{"de_words":133,"en_words":139,"ratio":1.05,"partial":false},"correspondence":"established","note":"English passage numbering is edition-relative, so the same number need not name the same paragraph in the German. 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Cite the translator with confidence; attribute the publisher only as probable."},"entity_parity":{"status":"ok","checked_against":["GA 235/1924-03-23/p018"],"missing_from_translation":[],"present_only_in_translation":[],"bead_confidence":"high","note":"Every load-bearing name in the German counterpart appears in this English passage. That is a check on NAMES only: a translation can keep every name and still reverse who acts on whom, change a number, or soften a claim. Read the German for anything you intend to rest an argument on."},"note":"quote_safe certifies the bytes of this text. This block is about the translation as a WITNESS: who made it, and whether it carries the same names as the original. See witness_completeness for how much of the original this witness holds."}},{"passage_number":16,"locus":"GA 235/1924-03-23/p016","text":"Thus, in the case of Garibaldi, we are led back to an Initiate-life, and it was a life in those Mysteries which I described to you some months ago as proceeding from Ireland. Garibaldi, however, is to be found in an offshoot of those Mysteries at no great distance from here, in Alsace. There we find him, as an Initiate of a certain degree. And it is moreover fairly certain that between this incarnation in the 9th century, A.D., and his last incarnation in the 19th century, there was no further incarnation, but a long sojourn in the spiritual world. There you have the secret of this personality. He received all that I have described to you as the wisdom of Hibernia, and he received it at a very high stage of Initiation. He was within the places of the Mysteries in Ireland, and was actually the leader of the colony that came over later into Europe.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":157,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/235/1924-03-23/p016","german_anchor":{"de_prefix":"1924-03-23","de_passages":[{"locus":"GA 235/1924-03-23/p019","url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/235/1924-03-23/p019"},{"locus":"GA 235/1924-03-23/p020","url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/235/1924-03-23/p020"}],"bead_confidence":"high","length_check":{"de_words":173,"en_words":157,"ratio":0.91,"partial":false},"correspondence":"established","note":"English passage numbering is edition-relative, so the same number need not name the same paragraph in the German. 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Ja, meine lieben Freunde, wenn in ausgiebigerem Maße heute die Möglichkeit gegeben wäre, daß die Menschen - ich muß in dieser Beziehung schon etwas paradox sprechen — entweder gleich mit siebzehn, achtzehn Jahren geboren würden, so daß sie also schon gleich siebzehn, achtzehn Jahre alt wären, aus der geistigen Welt herunterstiegen und siebzehn-, achtzehnjährige Körper vorfinden würden auf irgendeine Weise — ich sage natürlich etwas Paradoxes -, oder wenn wenigstens den Menschen erspart würde, die in heutiger Art konstituierte Schule durchzumachen, dann würden Sie finden, daß in heutigen Menschen die ehemaligen Eingeweihten auftreten könnten. Aber geradesowenig wie es den Eingeweihten möglich ist, unter den gewöhnlichen Erdenverhältnissen, wenn sie Brot brauchen, sich mit einem Stück Eis zu nähren, ebensowenig ist es möglich, die Weisheitsverhältnisse der alten Zeit unmittelbar in der Form, wie man es erwartet, in einem Körper zu manifestieren, der in dem Sinne, wie es die heutige Zivilisation mit sich bringt, bis zum siebzehnten, achtzehnten Lebensjahre erzogen wird. Das ist auf der ganzen Welt nicht möglich; wenigstens da, wo eben Zivilisation herrscht, ist es nicht möglich. Da kommen ja Dinge in Betracht, die überhaupt durchaus außer dem Gesichtskreise des heutigen Gebildeten liegen.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":213,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/235/1924-03-23/p013"},{"locus":"GA 235/1924-03-23/p014","passage_number":14,"text":"Wenn man, wie es heute üblich ist, unsere gegenwärtigen Lese- und Schreibkenntnisse vom sechsten, siebenten Lebensjahre an sich aneignen muß, so ist das eine solche Tortur für die Seele, die sich ihrer besonderen Eigenart nach entwickeln will, daß - ja, ich kann nur sagen, was ich schon in meiner Lebensbeschreibung gesagt habe: Ich verdanke das Hinwegräumen manches Hindernisses dem Umstande, daß ich mit zwölf Jahren nicht orthographisch schreiben konnte, überhaupt noch nicht ordentlich schreiben konnte. Ich habe es erwähnt in meiner Lebensbeschreibung, denn das so Schreibenkönnen, wie man es heute verlangt, ertötet gewisse Eigentümlichkeiten des Menschen.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":96,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/235/1924-03-23/p014"},{"locus":"GA 235/1924-03-23/p015","passage_number":15,"text":"Man muß schon so paradox sprechen. Es ist einmal eine Wahrheit. Es ist nichts zu machen dagegen, es ist eine Wahrheit. Und so kommt es eben, daß gerade hoch entwickelte Individualitäten der Vergangenheit eigentlich in ihrer Wiedergeburt nur zu erkennen sind von dem, der da auf diejenigen Manifestationen der Menschennatur schaut, die sich durch die heutige Zivilisationsbildung mehr hinter dem Menschen als in dem Menschen offenbaren.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":66,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/235/1924-03-23/p015"},{"locus":"GA 235/1924-03-23/p016","passage_number":16,"text":"Und in dieser Beziehung ist gerade Garibaldi ein außerordentlich schlagendes Beispiel. Die zivilisierten Menschen, einschließlich Cavours oder wenigstens der Anhänger von Cavour, für was haben sie denn Garibaldi gehalten? Für einen verdrehten Zwickel, für einen verdrehten Kerl, mit dem vernünftigerweise gar nicht zu diskutieren ist. Das ist es ja, was man auch berücksichtigen muß, denn es war eben vieles in seinen Schlußfolgerungen in der Art und Weise, wie er vor Leuten sprach, die auf die heutige Zivilisation versessen sind, sagen wir, zum mindesten unlogisch. Es war eigentlich an dieser Persönlichkeit schon im Exterieur vieles unlogisch. Es paßten viele Dinge nicht zusammen.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":101,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/235/1924-03-23/p016"},{"locus":"GA 235/1924-03-23/p017","passage_number":17,"text":"Und nur derjenige, der gewissermaßen hinter eine Persönlichkeit sieht, der auf das sieht, was in früheren Erdenleben in den Körper hinein konnte und was in diesem Erdenleben, weil die gegenwärtige Zivilisation die Körper ungeeignet macht, nicht in den Körper hinein konnte, wer auf das sehen kann, der kann sich eine Vorstellung machen, was eine solche Persönlichkeit eigentlich ist. Ein anderer kommt gar nicht darauf, denn das Allerwichtigste bei einer solchen Persönlichkeit liegt eigentlich hinter den Äußerungen, die auf äußerliche Art eben gemacht werden können. Ein wackerer — die Anwesenden sind ja immer ausgenommen -, ein wackerer Philister, sagen wir, der einfach sich so ausdrückt, wie er es gelernt hat, bei dem man also einen Abglanz seines schulmäßigen und sonstigen Lernens und Erziehens sieht, den kann man eben seiner moralisch-geistigen Art nach photographieren. Er ist da. Aber einen Menschen, der mit einer umfänglichen Weisheitsseele aus alten Zeiten herüberkommt, so daß diese Seele in dem Körper sich nicht ausdrücken kann, den kann man nicht darnach beurteilen, was von ihm mit den Mitteln der heutigen Zivilisation aus dem Körper herauskommt. Das kann man vor allen Dingen bei Garibaldi nicht. Da muß man gewissermaßen — ich meine das nur als Bild die Sache so aufnehmen, wie gewisse Spiritistenbilder sind, hinter denen ein Phantom sichtbar wird; so erscheint einem solch eine Persönlichkeit: Erstens ihrem bürgerlichen Wert nach, und dahinter dann — wie etwas Spirituelles, wie eine Geistaufnahme — dasjenige, was nun nicht herein kann in den Körper.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":242,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/235/1924-03-23/p017"},{"locus":"GA 235/1924-03-23/p018","passage_number":18,"text":"Wenn man das alles berücksichtigt, namentlich wenn man sich tragen läßt im Schauen von den Dingen, die ich Ihnen besonders angeführt habe, dann fällt tatsächlich der Blick zu Garibaldi hin auf das Leben eines wirklich Eingeweihten zurück, der nur in einer ganz anderen Weise sich äußerlich auslebt, weil er eben in den Körper nicht ganz hinein kann. Und schließlich werden Ihnen doch die Dinge nicht ganz so erstaunlich erscheinen, wenn eben diese Eigenschaften, die ich hervorgehoben habe, berücksichtigt werden. Man muß schon etwas fremd sein dem, was einem heute anerzogen ist, man muß schon etwas «erdenentrückt» sein, wenn man durch ein Fernrohr sich in die bürgerlichen Verhältnisse hineinstellt, was ja sonst nicht üblich ist, und ähnliche Dinge. Es ist etwas, was in diesen Eigenschaften herausweist aus dem gewöhnlichen Drinnenstehen in diesen bürgerlichen Verhältnissen.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":133,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/235/1924-03-23/p018"},{"locus":"GA 235/1924-03-23/p019","passage_number":19,"text":"So werden wir denn bei Garibaldi zurückgeführt in ein Eingeweihtenleben, und gerade in ein Eingeweihtenleben, meine lieben Freunde, in einem solchen Mysterium, wie ich es hier vor einigen Monaten geschildert habe als ausgehend von Irland. Ich habe Ihnen die irischen Mysterien geschildert, ausgehend von Irland, aber zu suchen ist er in einer Zweigniederlassung nicht einmal gar sehr weit von hier, nämlich im Elsaß, im heutigen Elsaß; da finden wir in einem gewissen Grade eingeweiht gerade Garibaldi. Und zwar ist es ziemlich sicher, daß zwischen dieser Inkarnation, die wir etwa im 9. nachchristlichen Jahrhundert zu suchen haben, und der letzten im 19. Jahrhundert keine weitere dazwischen liegt, daß da ein langer Aufenthalt in der geistigen Welt dazwischen ist. Das ist dasjenige, was sich einem als das Geheimnis dieser Persönlichkeit gibt.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":129,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/235/1924-03-23/p019"},{"locus":"GA 235/1924-03-23/p020","passage_number":20,"text":"Aufgenommen hat diese Persönlichkeit das, was ich Ihnen als die Weisheitsgüter Hybernias geschildert habe, und zwar in einem sehr hohen Grade. Er war noch innerhalb der irischen Insel, der dortigen Mysterienstätte, und hat selbst die Kolonie geleitet, die dann später nach Europa hereingekommen ist.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":44,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/235/1924-03-23/p020"}],"beads":[{"from":[11],"to":[13],"confidence":"high"},{"from":[12],"to":[14],"confidence":"high"},{"from":[13],"to":[15,16,17],"confidence":"high"},{"from":[14,15],"to":[18],"confidence":"high"},{"from":[16],"to":[19,20],"confidence":"high"}],"note":"Paired by the paragraph aligner; each language numbers its own paragraphs. A bead at either end of the span can carry text beyond it (the `from` numbers show what each bead covers)."}}