{"corpus":"steiner","locus":"GA 302a/1920-09-21/p011","lang":"en","edition":"English","edition_basis":null,"is_original":false,"is_default_edition":true,"text":"Whilst all this refers to experiencing the pictorial element conveyed by means of sight, it is different in the case of everything relating to the element of sound, to the more or less musical element; and I do not only mean the musical element that lives in music, which only serves as the clearest example, and applies par excellence, but I mean everything to do with what we hear, living more in language and so on. I am referring to all that, when 1 speak of the sounding element. And here—however paradoxical it may sound—it is exactly the opposite process of the one I have just described. The sense organisation in the ear is inwardly connected in a very delicate way with all the nerves that present-day physiology calls motor nerves, but which are in fact the same thing as sensory nerves; so that all we experience as audible is perceived by the nerve strands embedded in our limb organisation. Everything musical has to penetrate deep inside our organism first of all—and our ear nerves are organised for this—and in order to be perceived properly it has to seize hold of the nerves deep within our organism those nerves in which otherwise only the will is active. For those areas in the human organism that convey memory of pictorial expedience—convey the actual perception of musical experiences. So if you look for the area in the organism where the memory of visual perceptions is developed you will also find the nerves that convey the actual perception of sound. Here we see the reason why, for instance, Schopenhauer and others brought music into such intimate connection with the will. Musical perceptions are perceived in the same place as visual perceptions are remembered, namely in the realms of the will. The place where musical perceptions are understood is again the rhythmic system. That is what is so impressive about the human organism, that these things intertwine in such a remarkable way. Our perceptions of visual things meet with our perceptions of audible things and are interwoven in a common inner soul experience because they are both understood in the rhythmic system. Everything we perceive is understood in the rhythmic system. Visual perceptions are perceived by the separate head organism and audible perceptions by the whole limb organism. Visual perceptions stream into the organism; audible perceptions stream from the organism upwards. And you must now combine this with what I said in the first talk. You can do this very well if you feel it. Through the fact that both worlds meet in the rhythmic system something arises in our soul experience that is a combination of audible experiences and visual experiences. And the musical element, that is, everything we hear, is remembered in the same realm where visual things have their sense-nerve organs. These are at one and the same time the kind of organs that appear to be sense-nerve organs, and external physiology calls them that, yet in reality they are connected with the metabolism, and convey the delicate metabolism of the head realm and bring about musical memories. In the same realms in which perception of visual things take place musical memory, the remembering of everything audible, takes place. We remember what we hear in the same realm as we perceive what we see. We perceive what we hear in the same realm as we remember what we see. And both cross over like a lemniscate in the rhythmic system where they intermesh.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"title":"III. Spiritual Knowledge of Man as the Fount of Educational Art","site_heading":null,"date":"1920-09-21","location":null,"word_count":582,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/302a/1920-09-21/p011","alignment_confidence":"medium","alignment_reason":"beads:identity","two_voice_volume":false,"translation_credit":{"scope":"unit","status":"established","translator":"T. van Vliet, Paula Wehrle and Karla Kiniger","identified_edition":null,"book_title":"Meditatively Acquired Knowledge of Man","publisher":null,"publisher_inferred":false,"match_score":1.0,"source_url":"https://www.rsarchive.org/Lectures/MediMan/19200921p01.html","evidence":"lecture_page_line"},"edition_coverage":{"de":["original"],"en":["English"]},"available_versions":[{"lang":"de","edition":"original","edition_basis":null,"is_original":true,"is_default_edition":true,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/302a/1920-09-21/p011"},{"lang":"en","edition":"English","edition_basis":null,"is_original":false,"is_default_edition":true,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/302a/1920-09-21/p011","paragraph_aligned":true}],"record":{"record_type":"unknown","scope":"volume","note":"How this text was taken down (shorthand transcript, listeners' notes or manuscript) is not on record here. Unknown is not an assurance of a stenogram: check the edition's own notes before resting an argument on one word.","evidence":null,"evidence_translation":null,"evidence_source":null},"other_renderings":{"loci":[{"locus":"GA 277b/1920-09-21","ga":"277b","lecture":"1920-09-21","kind":"reprint","relation":"the same text served under another volume (a reprint or another edition)"},{"locus":"GA 269/19200921p01_269-09","ga":"269","lecture":"19200921p01_269-09","kind":"reprint","relation":"the same text served under another volume (a reprint or another edition)"}],"note":"The same lecture is also served at the loci listed, each with how it relates to this one. They are ONE witness, not independent attestations: quote the rendering you fetched, and do not cite another as corroborating it. Wording differs between translations, so a quotation found in one need not occur in the other."},"german_anchor":{"de_prefix":"1920-09-21","de_passages":[{"locus":"GA 302a/1920-09-21/p011","url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/302a/1920-09-21/p011"}],"bead_confidence":"medium","pairing_state":"verified","verified":true,"evidence":["length","meaning","anchors","audit"],"length_check":{"de_words":575,"en_words":582,"ratio":1.01,"partial":false},"correspondence":"established","note":"English passage numbering is edition-relative, so the same number need not name the same paragraph in the German. The German original passage(s) above are the edition-invariant anchor — fetch them (lang='de') to verify wording before quoting across editions."},"paired_german":{"status":"paired","german":[{"locus":"GA 302a/1920-09-21/p011","passage_number":11,"text":"Während sich dies alles auf das bildliche, durch das Sehen vermittelte Erleben bezieht, ist es anders bei allem, wo Tönendes, mehr oder weniger Musikalisches in Betracht kommt; wobei ich nicht nur das in der Musik lebende Musikalische meine, das nur diese Dinge besonders anschaulich macht und wofür es allerdings vorzüglich gilt, sondern alles, was mit dem Hörbaren zusammenhängt, was mehr in der Sprache und so weiter lebt. Alles das meine ich, wenn ich jetzt vom Tönenden spreche. Da ist nun der Vorgang gegenüber dem, was ich eben geschildert habe - so paradox es klingt -, gerade der umgekehrte. Dasjenige, was im Ohr Sinnesorganisation ist, hängt in einer sehr feinen Weise innerlich mit allen den Nerven zusammen, welche die heutige Physiologie motorische nennt, die aber in Wirklichkeit dasselbe wie die Sinnesnerven sind; daß alles dasjenige, was von uns als Ertönendes erlebt wird, wahrgenommen wird durch die in unsere gliedliche Organisation eingebetteten Nervenstränge. Alles Musikalische muß zuerst tief in unseren Organismus eindringen —- und dazu sind die Nerven des Ohres schon organisiert —, muß zuerst tief in unsere ganze Organisation eindringen und muß dasjenige ergreifen, wohinein sonst nur der Wille wirkt in den Nerven, um in der richtigen Weise wahrgenommen zu werden. Denn diejenigen Territorien im menschlichen Organismus, die bei den bildhaften Erlebnissen die Erinnerung vermitteln, diese Territorien sind es, die beim Musikalischen, beim Hörbaren, die Wahrnehmung vermitteln. Suchen Sie also im Organismus diejenigen Partien, welche für die Gesichtswahrnehmungen das Gedächtnis ausbilden, so finden Sie in denselben Partien diejenigen Nerven, welche für die Hörwahrnehmung das Wahrnehmen selbst vermitteln. Darin liegt zum Beispiel der Grund, warum Schopenhauer und andere die Musik so eng mit dem Willen in Zusammenhang gebracht haben. Wo für die Sehvorstellungen erinnert wird, nämlich in den Willensbezirken, da wird wahrgenommen für die Gehörvorstellungen. Verstanden wird auch für die Gehörvorstellungen durch das rhythmische System. Und das ist das Bedeutsame in der menschlichen Organisation, daß sich die Dinge in einer so eigentümlichen Weise verschlingen. Unsere Bildvorstellungen kommen mit unseren Gehörvorstellungen zusammen und verweben sich zu einem gemeinsamen inneren Seelenleben dadurch, daß sowohl die Bildvorstellungen wie die Gehörvorstellungen durch das rhythmische System verstanden werden. Verstanden wird alles, was wir wahrnehmen, durch das rhythmische System. Wahrgenommen werden die Gesichtsvorstellungen durch den abgesonderten Kopforganismus, und wahrgenommen werden die Gehörvorstellungen durch den ganzen gliedlichen Organismus. Die Gesichtsvorstellungen haben eine Strömung nach dem Organismus hinein; die Gehörvorstellungen haben eine Strömung von dem Organismus aufwärts. Das müssen Sie nun zusammenbringen mit dem, was ich in der ersten Stunde gesagt habe. Das läßt sich sehr gut zusammenbringen, wenn man es empfindet. Und dadurch, daß sich beide Welten begegnen im rhythmischen System, entsteht dasjenige in unserem seelischen Erleben, was gemeinsam in sich schließt Gehörerlebnisse und Gesichtserlebnisse. Und erinnert wird das Musikalische, erinnert wird alles Hörbare nun in demselben Bezirk, wo das Sichtbare seine Sinnes-Nervenorgane hat. Das sind zu gleicher Zeit diejenigen Organe — Sinnes-Nervenorgane, scheinbar, so nennt sie die äußere Physiologie —, die wieder in Wirklichkeit solche Organe sind, die zusammenhängen mit dem Stoffwechsel, die den feineren Stoffwechsel des Kopfbezirkes vermitteln und durch den die musikalischen Erinnerungen zustande kommen. In denselben Bezirken, wo das Wahrnehmen für die Gesichtsvorstellungen zustande kommt, da kommt das musikalische Erinnern, überhaupt das Erinnern des Hörbaren zustande. In denselben Bezirken, in denen wir das Sichtbare wahrnehmen, erinnern wir uns des Hörbaren. In denselben Bezirken, in denen wir uns des Sichtbaren erinnern, nehmen wir das Hörbare wahr. Und die beiden überkreuzen sich wie eine Lemniskate im rhythmischen System, wo sie ineinander-, übereinandergreifen.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":575,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/302a/1920-09-21/p011"}],"english":["GA 302a/1920-09-21/p011"],"method":"identity","confidence":"medium","correspondence":"established","length_check":{"de_words":575,"en_words":582,"ratio":1.01,"partial":false},"pairing_state":"verified","verified":true,"evidence":["length","meaning","anchors","audit"]},"witness_completeness":{"ratio":1.01,"band":"comparable","note":null,"word_count":4298,"original_word_count":4245,"may_be_abridged":false},"witness_quality":{"translator":{"scope":"unit","status":"recorded","translator":"T. van Vliet, Paula Wehrle and Karla Kiniger","identified_edition":null,"book_title":"Meditatively Acquired Knowledge of Man","publisher":null,"publisher_inferred":false,"match_score":1.0,"source_url":"https://www.rsarchive.org/Lectures/MediMan/19200921p01.html","evidence":"lecture_page_line"},"entity_parity":{"status":"ok","checked_against":["GA 302a/1920-09-21/p011"],"missing_from_translation":[],"present_only_in_translation":[],"bead_confidence":"medium","note":"Every load-bearing name in the German counterpart appears in this English passage. 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