{"corpus":"steiner","locus":"GA 317/1924-06-26/p029-p033","extent":"range","passage_number":29,"through":33,"paragraph_count":5,"first_locus":"GA 317/1924-06-26/p029","last_locus":"GA 317/1924-06-26/p033","lang":"en","edition":"English","edition_basis":null,"is_original":false,"is_default_edition":true,"title":"Lecture II","date":"1924-06-26","location":null,"alignment_confidence":"medium","alignment_reason":"beads:embedding","two_voice_volume":false,"translation_credit":{"scope":"unit","status":"established","translator":"Mary Adams","identified_edition":"RSP1972","book_title":"Curative Education","publisher":"Rudolf Steiner Press","publisher_inferred":true,"match_score":1.0,"source_url":"https://www.rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA317/English/RSP1972/19240626p01.html","evidence":"lecture_page_line","publisher_note":"The publisher is inferred from the edition code in this lecture's source URL, not stated by the source page. The translator IS verified for this lecture: its own source names the translator (evidence: the lecture's page, rsarchive's lecture list, or the cover of the book it was published in), and that page's text was matched against this unit (see match_score and source_url). Cite the translator with confidence; attribute the publisher only as probable."},"edition_coverage":{"de":["original"],"en":["English"]},"record":{"record_type":"unknown","scope":"volume","note":"How this text was taken down (shorthand transcript, listeners' notes or manuscript) is not on record here. 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Cite the unit by its title and locus, never by this heading, and do not quote it.","url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/317/1924-06-26/p029-p033","json_url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/317/1924-06-26/p029-p033.json","lecture_url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/317/1924-06-26#p029","word_count":1212,"quote_safe":true,"passages":[{"passage_number":29,"locus":"GA 317/1924-06-26/p029","text":"Let us suppose then that you have this person who is said to be suffering from grave mental illness. You can, as is generally done nowadays, describe the case psychographically—that is, describe the symptoms. According to the view of the case that is certain to be adopted in our present-day civilisation, the person does the maddest possible things. But people do not stop to consider what they may have before them in this mad person! As a matter of fact, it may quite well be that the person who is now passing his life in complete insanity has had in earlier ages a very significant incarnation, he may at one time have been a genius. But suppose this manifestation of genius came two incarnations ago and then, in the intermediate incarnation, the man was imprisoned when comparatively young, and had from that moment on no contact with the world. He passed then through the gate of death, and lived on further in the spiritual world. Then he appeared again on Earth—insane. Because what he took in during that incarnation remained completely outside the field of experience of the physical and the etheric body, he had not the opportunity of elaborating it, and therefore returns to incarnation in entire ignorance of the interior of the human body. He cannot get into the physical body and ether body, he remains outside them all the time; and so, being unable to make use of the physical body, he is, you see, insane. His manner of life is such that we shall not be able to see him as he really is, until we look right away from his physical and his etheric body and give our attention to his astral body and ego.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":290,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/317/1924-06-26/p029","german_anchor":{"de_prefix":"1924-06-26","de_passages":[{"locus":"GA 317/1924-06-26/p030","url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/317/1924-06-26/p030"},{"locus":"GA 317/1924-06-26/p031","url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/317/1924-06-26/p031"}],"bead_confidence":"medium","length_check":{"de_words":511,"en_words":543,"ratio":1.06,"partial":false},"correspondence":"established","note":"English passage numbering is edition-relative, so the same number need not name the same paragraph in the German. 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Cite the translator with confidence; attribute the publisher only as probable."},"entity_parity":{"status":"ok","checked_against":["GA 317/1924-06-26/p030","GA 317/1924-06-26/p031"],"missing_from_translation":[],"present_only_in_translation":[],"bead_confidence":"medium","note":"Every load-bearing name in the German counterpart appears in this English passage. That is a check on NAMES only: a translation can keep every name and still reverse who acts on whom, change a number, or soften a claim. Read the German for anything you intend to rest an argument on."},"note":"quote_safe certifies the bytes of this text. This block is about the translation as a WITNESS: who made it, and whether it carries the same names as the original. See witness_completeness for how much of the original this witness holds."}},{"passage_number":30,"locus":"GA 317/1924-06-26/p030","text":"Let us now imagine, we have such a person before us in childhood. There will be a constant effort on the part of the child to come into the physical and into the etheric body, and then again, he will experience a resistance, he will be pushed back. It may very well be that owing to the predetermined conditions some of the organs are not in order. Imagine you have here physical body and etheric body.[^4] The astral body and ego want to come in. And they do come in, everywhere, but here they do not enter in a proper and orderly manner. They have to make a special effort. Every time, they want, let us say, to penetrate liver and stomach, the astral body and ego have to make an effort. And now this effort works itself out—regulates itself, as it were, in a curious way. A kind of rhythm is set up, an abnormal rhythm. At one moment the ego strengthens itself, then it become feeble again. So that we find in the child this alternation—first, a strong liver-stomach feeling, and then, before this has come to consciousness, a weakened liver-stomach feeling. The child oscillates continually between the two. And the consequence is, he has not, as it were, time to make use of his body in the so-called normal way. For he could make use of the body only if this rhythm were not present and astral body and ego were able to take possession of the several organs quietly.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":253,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/317/1924-06-26/p030","german_anchor":{"de_prefix":"1924-06-26","de_passages":[{"locus":"GA 317/1924-06-26/p030","url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/317/1924-06-26/p030"},{"locus":"GA 317/1924-06-26/p031","url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/317/1924-06-26/p031"}],"bead_confidence":"medium","length_check":{"de_words":511,"en_words":543,"ratio":1.06,"partial":false},"correspondence":"established","note":"English passage numbering is edition-relative, so the same number need not name the same paragraph in the German. 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Cite the translator with confidence; attribute the publisher only as probable."},"entity_parity":{"status":"ok","checked_against":["GA 317/1924-06-26/p030","GA 317/1924-06-26/p031"],"missing_from_translation":[],"present_only_in_translation":[],"bead_confidence":"medium","note":"Every load-bearing name in the German counterpart appears in this English passage. That is a check on NAMES only: a translation can keep every name and still reverse who acts on whom, change a number, or soften a claim. Read the German for anything you intend to rest an argument on."},"note":"quote_safe certifies the bytes of this text. This block is about the translation as a WITNESS: who made it, and whether it carries the same names as the original. See witness_completeness for how much of the original this witness holds."}},{"passage_number":31,"locus":"GA 317/1924-06-26/p031","text":"How can we learn to recognise and understand such a condition? It will help us to do so, if we look at the whole process in somewhat the following way.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":30,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/317/1924-06-26/p031","german_anchor":{"de_prefix":"1924-06-26","de_passages":[{"locus":"GA 317/1924-06-26/p032","url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/317/1924-06-26/p032"},{"locus":"GA 317/1924-06-26/p033","url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/317/1924-06-26/p033"}],"bead_confidence":"medium","length_check":{"de_words":138,"en_words":146,"ratio":1.06,"partial":false},"correspondence":"established","note":"English passage numbering is edition-relative, so the same number need not name the same paragraph in the German. 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Cite the translator with confidence; attribute the publisher only as probable."},"entity_parity":{"status":"ok","checked_against":["GA 317/1924-06-26/p032","GA 317/1924-06-26/p033"],"missing_from_translation":[],"present_only_in_translation":[],"bead_confidence":"medium","note":"Every load-bearing name in the German counterpart appears in this English passage. That is a check on NAMES only: a translation can keep every name and still reverse who acts on whom, change a number, or soften a claim. Read the German for anything you intend to rest an argument on."},"note":"quote_safe certifies the bytes of this text. This block is about the translation as a WITNESS: who made it, and whether it carries the same names as the original. See witness_completeness for how much of the original this witness holds."}},{"passage_number":32,"locus":"GA 317/1924-06-26/p032","text":"Imagine you have before you a clever man, an exceedingly clever man—but a man who is definitely not a watchmaker. It happens one day that he is in the predicament of having to mend his watch, which has stopped. Instead of mending it, he completely ruins it. That does not gainsay the fact that he is an exceedingly clever man. He fails, not from lack of cleverness, but because he has not sufficient mastery of the situation. Similarly genius may, under certain circumstances, fail and come to grief, when descending from pre-earthly to earthly existence. Only, in this case the failure is not so quickly finished with, but lasts for the whole of that earthly life.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":116,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/317/1924-06-26/p032","german_anchor":{"de_prefix":"1924-06-26","de_passages":[{"locus":"GA 317/1924-06-26/p032","url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/317/1924-06-26/p032"},{"locus":"GA 317/1924-06-26/p033","url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/317/1924-06-26/p033"}],"bead_confidence":"medium","length_check":{"de_words":138,"en_words":146,"ratio":1.06,"partial":false},"correspondence":"established","note":"English passage numbering is edition-relative, so the same number need not name the same paragraph in the German. 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Cite the translator with confidence; attribute the publisher only as probable."},"entity_parity":{"status":"ok","checked_against":["GA 317/1924-06-26/p032","GA 317/1924-06-26/p033"],"missing_from_translation":[],"present_only_in_translation":[],"bead_confidence":"medium","note":"Every load-bearing name in the German counterpart appears in this English passage. That is a check on NAMES only: a translation can keep every name and still reverse who acts on whom, change a number, or soften a claim. Read the German for anything you intend to rest an argument on."},"note":"quote_safe certifies the bytes of this text. This block is about the translation as a WITNESS: who made it, and whether it carries the same names as the original. See witness_completeness for how much of the original this witness holds."}},{"passage_number":33,"locus":"GA 317/1924-06-26/p033","text":"There is a real call to us here to look with love upon the soul-and-spirit nature that descends from the spiritual world, to look with love upon it, even where it comes to expression in so-called insanity—yes, to look with love upon the very details of the insanity. And then we shall feel impelled to go beyond the symptomatology that can furnish a psychography of the case, and look rather at the karmic connections into which this insane human being comes. We shall have to observe his relation with the outer world, and note carefully the situations of life into which he comes, for these are incredibly interesting. And then, watching all this objectively, we shall find that insanity is really something that can arouse our deepest interest. We shall see in it a distorted image of the highest wisdom; it will be for us like the opening of a door from the direction of the spiritual world—though the spiritual world has then to come in through a rather twisted and contorted passage of entry! And as our interest in the whole process grows—without of course becoming sensational—the particular abnormalities will become deeply and inwardly interesting to us. Suppose an abnormality gets hold of the physical and the ether body and a rhythm such as I have described is set up: first, a powerful development of astral and ego activity, so that physical body and etheric body are taken hold of strongly; then, that is all reversed, and the activity of astral and ego becomes weak again. Suppose there is this rhythm, and we come to the point of being able to observe what happens, first in the moment when firm hold is taken of the physical and etheric bodies, and then again in the moment when this hold is weakened. If we are able also to enter into the experience the child goes through inwardly, entering into it with a great capacity of love, it can come about that, as time goes on, the rhythm is overcome, and that then as a result of it all, liver and stomach are gripped with quite unusual intensity—and behold, the child begins to do things that are a manifestation of genius! Otherwise the condition has to remain as it is until these things can be adjusted in the further life between death and a new birth. For it is indeed true, and we must be conscious of the fact: in educating backward children we are intervening in a process which in the normal course of development—were there no intervention, or were there misguided intervention—would find its fulfilment only when the child had passed through the gate of death and come to birth again in the next life. We are making, that is to say, a deep intervention in karma. Whenever we give treatment to a backward child, we are intervening in *karma*. And it goes without saying, we must intervene in karma in this way. For there is such a thing as right intervention. Certain prejudices in these matters need to be overcome. How necessary that is, let me demonstrate to you from another example.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":523,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/317/1924-06-26/p033","german_anchor":{"de_prefix":"1924-06-26","de_passages":[{"locus":"GA 317/1924-06-26/p034","url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/317/1924-06-26/p034"},{"locus":"GA 317/1924-06-26/p035","url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/317/1924-06-26/p035"}],"bead_confidence":"medium","length_check":{"de_words":700,"en_words":850,"ratio":1.21,"partial":false},"correspondence":"established","note":"English passage numbering is edition-relative, so the same number need not name the same paragraph in the German. 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Ja, darüber denkt doch der Mensch der heutigen Zivilisation gar nicht nach, was da vorliegt, er denkt nicht nach. Sehen Sie, dasjenige, was da vorliegt, ist dieses: Dieser Mensch, der heute also als ein ganz verrückter sich auslebt, der kann unter Umständen eine sehr bedeutende Inkarnation gewesen sein in früheren Zeiten, in genialischer Weise sich in früheren Zeiten ausgelebt haben irgendeinmal. Aber sagen wir, dieses geniale Ausleben wäre in einer zweiten zurückliegenden Inkarnation dagewesen (siehe Tafel 3, unten). Dann wäre eine andere Inkarnation gefolgt, in der man den betreffenden Menschen in verhältnismäßig frühem Alter eingekerkert hat, so daß er gar nicht mit der Welt in Beziehung gekommen ist. Dann ist er durch den Tod gegangen und hat weitergelebt. Dann ist er als verrückter Mensch wiedererschienen. Gerade deshalb, weil das, was er in der Inkarnation aufgenommen hat, vollständig außer dem Bereich des Erlebens des physischen und ätherischen Leibes geblieben ist, deshalb hat er nicht Gelegenheit gehabt, es zu verarbeiten, und er kommt daher in völliger Unkenntnis des Inneren des menschlichen Leibes zur Inkarnation, er kann nicht hinein in den physischen Leib und Ätherleib, bleibt immer draußen, und, weil er sich nicht bedienen kann des physischen Leibes, ist er eben verrückt. Er lebt sich so aus, daß wir däs, was er ist, erst sehen, wenn wir ganz absehen von seinem physischen und seinem Ätherleib, wenn wir hinsehen auf seinen astralischen Leib und sein Ich.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":278,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/317/1924-06-26/p030"},{"locus":"GA 317/1924-06-26/p031","passage_number":31,"text":"Denken Sie, wir haben also einen solchen Menschen als Kind vor uns. Da haben wir dieses fortwährende Versuchen im kindlichen Menschenwesen, in den physischen Leib und in den Ätherleib hineinzukommen, und dann wiederum dieses Zurückstoßen. Nun, wir können durchaus den Fall so haben, daß, sagen wir — schematisch wäre hier physischer Leib und Ätherleib (siehe Tafel 3, rechts) -, irgendwelche Organe da sind, die durch die Vorbedingungen nicht in Ordnung sind; der Astralleib und das Ich wollen hinein. Sie kommen da überall hinein, aber da (siehe Tafel 3) kommen sie nicht ordentlich hinein, sie müssen jedesmal eine Anstrengung machen. Sagen wir, der astralische Leib und das Ich müssen jedesmal eine Anstrengung machen, wenn Leber und Magen durchdrungen werden sollen, Diese Anstrengung wirkt sich nun in merkwürdiger Weise aus: es entsteht etwas wie ein abnormer Rhythmus, die Anstrengung führt dazu, daß das Ich in einem entsprechenden Momente sich verstärkt und dann sich wieder abschwächt. Und wir haben abwechselnd in dem Kinde ein starkes Leber-Magengefühl, und ehe das noch zum Bewußtsein gekommen ist, dann ein abgeschwächtes Leber-Magengefühl da. Und immer pendelt das Kind hin und her zwischen diesem starken Leber-Magengefühl und dem abgeschwächten Leber-Magengefühle. Dadurch kommt das Kind nicht dazu, seinen Körper in sogenannt normaler Weise zu benutzen. Denn den kann man nur benutzen, wenn dieser Rhythmus nicht eintritt, unterbleibt, und in ruhiger Weise der Astralleib und das Ich von den einzelnen Organen Besitz ergreifen.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":233,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/317/1924-06-26/p031"},{"locus":"GA 317/1924-06-26/p032","passage_number":32,"text":"Ja, aber wie kommt man zum Verstehen einer solchen Sache? Zum Verstehen einer solchen Sache kommt man eben dann, wenn man den ganzen Vorgang etwa so ansieht.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":27,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/317/1924-06-26/p032"},{"locus":"GA 317/1924-06-26/p033","passage_number":33,"text":"Nehmen wir an, wir haben einen sehr, sehr gescheiten Menschen vor uns, der aber eben gerade kein Uhrmacher ist. Aber er ist genötigt, sich seine Uhr, die stehengeblieben ist, selber zu reparieren. Es passiert ihm, daß, statt daß er die Uhr repariert, er sie total zugrunde richtet. Das hindert ja nicht daran, daß er ganz gescheit ist. Es ist ihm halt in einer Maßnahme aus Mangel an Beherrschung der Möglichkeiten, nicht aus Mangel an Gescheitheit seine Gescheitheit gescheitert. So scheitert unter Umständen beim Heruntersteigen aus dem vorirdischen Dasein in das irdische Dasein die Genialität generaliter, nur daß sich eben das Scheitern nicht in so kurzer Zeit abspielt, sondern im ganzen Erdenleben.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":111,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/317/1924-06-26/p033"},{"locus":"GA 317/1924-06-26/p034","passage_number":34,"text":"Das aber fordert uns erst recht auf, hinzuschauen auf das, was da heruntersteigt, liebevoll hinzuschauen auf dasjenige, was sich da in der sogenannten Verrücktheit auslebt, auf all die Einzelheiten hinzuschauen, die sich in der Verrücktheit ausleben, und hinauszukommen über die bloße Symptomatologie des Seelenlebens, die zur Psychographie führen kann, und mehr auf die karmischen Zusammenhänge hinzuschauen, in die dieser Verrückte hineinkommt, mehr auf seine Verbindung mit der Außenwelt zu schauen, in welche Lebenslagen er kommt - denn diese Lebenslagen sind unglaublich interessant -, auf dieses mehr objektiv zu schauen, und dann diese Verrücktheit außerordentlich interessant finden und sie zu nehmen für ein verzerrtes Abbild der höchsten Weisheit, für ein Toröffnen von seiten der geistigen Welt, die eben nur durch verzerrte Ausgangsmittel hereinkommt, immer mehr und mehr sich hineinzuleben in das Interessantfinden, nicht etwa sensationell, sondern tief innerlich Interessantfinden der Abnormitäten. Denn ergreift einmal eine Abnormität in Wirklichkeit den physischen und Ätherleib, kommt es dazu, daß dasjenige, was ich Ihnen da angedeutet habe, eintritt, daß ein Rhythmus entsteht durch starke Entfaltung astralisch-ichlicher Tätigkeit und daß physischer und Ätherleib stark ergriffen werden, dann überwunden werden, dann wieder schwach werden, und kommt man an das heran, daß man dem entgegenkommt, kommt man so heran, daß man beobachten kann, was eintritt in dem Momente des Sich-intensiv-Ergreifens, in dem Momente des Sich-schwach-Ergreifens, geht man selbst mit voller Liebefähigkeit daran, dann kann aus diesem Rhythmus das herauskommen, daß später, wenn der Rhythmus überwunden ist, gerade in einer intensiveren Weise, als dies gewöhnlich der Fall ist, Leber und Magen ergriffen werden, dann kann ein Genie der Tat, des Tuns, doch noch daraus hervorgehen, während es sonst dem überlassen bleibt, daß in dem Weiterleben zwischen Tod und neuer Geburt diese Sachen ausgeglichen werden. Denken Sie sich nur einmal, man muß sich bewußt sein, daß, wenn man minderwertige Kinder erzieht, man eingreift in dasjenige, was sich im naturgemäßen Gang ohne Eingreifen erst vollzieht, oder bei falschem Eingreifen sich erst vollzieht, wenn das Kind durch die Todespforte gegangen ist und im nächsten Leben wiedergeboren wird, wodurch ins Karma tief eingegriffen wird. Bei jedem Behandeln eines minderwertigen Kindes wird in das Karma eingegriffen, und selbstverständlich muß eingegriffen werden. Es ist ein richtiges Eingreifen ins Karma, es müssen da gewisse Dinge überwunden werden.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":371,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/317/1924-06-26/p034"},{"locus":"GA 317/1924-06-26/p035","passage_number":35,"text":"Daß gewisse Dinge überwunden werden, dafür haben ein paar von denen, die hier sind und in Breslau waren, vor kurzer Zeit ein Beispiel erlebt, das ich Ihnen hier erzählen will, damit Sie in der richtigen Weise in das Denken kommen über solche Dinge. Ich habe auf dem Landwirtschaftlichen Kursus in Breslau Richtlinien angegeben, um die Landwirtschaft in der richtigen Weise zu behandeln. Nun saß bei diesem Breslauer Kursus auch ein älterer Landwirt, der auch ein altes Mitglied der Gesellschaft ist. Er kam bei dem ganzen Kursus nicht hinaus über eine gewisse Empfindung, und immer in der Diskussion trat diese Empfindung wieder hervor. Er sagte fortwährend: Ja, wenn man aber das tut, da benützt man ja okkulte Mittel, um praktische Dinge auszuführen. Berührt das nicht die menschliche Moralität in einem zu intensiven Sinne? Kann das nicht auch in unmoralischem Sinne ausgenutzt werden? — Er kam gar nicht hinaus über diesen Skrupel, er witterte in Anwendung solcher Dinge schwarze Magie. Natürlich wird diese Sache schwarze Magie, wenn man sie nicht so behandelt, wie sie behandelt werden muß. Deshalb habe ich einmal ganz klar gesagt: Ja, Moralität muß bei allen diesen Dingen sein. Deshalb setze ich voraus, daß die, welche teilgenommen haben, in voller Moralität der Menschheit zu dienen, der Landwirtschaft zu helfen, an diesem Kursus teilgenommen haben. Deshalb soll man nehmen den Landwirtschaftlichen Ring auch als einen moralischen Ring, der sich zur Aufgabe setzt, daß diese Dinge richtig angewendet werden. Die Magie, die Götter wenden sie an, aber der Unterschied zwischen weißer und schwarzer Magie besteht lediglich darin, daß man in der weißen Magie eingreift in moralischer Art, in selbstloser Art, bei der schwarzen Magie auf unmoralische, auf selbstische Art. Einen andern Unterschied gibt es nicht. Und so kann selbstverständlich, da alles Reden über die Erziehung minderwertiger Kinder ein bloßes Gerede ist, wo nichts dabei herauskommt, diese Erziehung nur mit Mitteln wirken, die auch hinübergehen können in die unmoralische Anwendung. Da kommt vor allen Dingen in Betracht die Erstarkung des Verantwortungsgefühles.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":329,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/317/1924-06-26/p035"}],"beads":[{"from":[29,30],"to":[30,31],"confidence":"medium"},{"from":[31,32],"to":[32,33],"confidence":"medium"},{"from":[33,34],"to":[34,35],"confidence":"medium"}],"note":"Paired by the paragraph aligner; each language numbers its own paragraphs. A bead at either end of the span can carry text beyond it (the `from` numbers show what each bead covers)."}}