{"corpus":"steiner","locus":"GA 343/anthroposophy_and_religion/p031-p033","extent":"range","passage_number":31,"through":33,"paragraph_count":3,"first_locus":"GA 343/anthroposophy_and_religion/p031","last_locus":"GA 343/anthroposophy_and_religion/p033","lang":"en","edition":"English","edition_basis":null,"is_original":false,"is_default_edition":true,"title":"IV. Anthroposophy and Religion","date":"1921-09-28","location":null,"alignment_confidence":"medium","alignment_reason":"beads:length+anchor_constrained","two_voice_volume":false,"translation_credit":{"scope":"unit","status":"established","translator":"Hanna von Maltitz","identified_edition":"SOL2018","book_title":"The Foundation Course","publisher":"Steiner Online Library","publisher_inferred":true,"match_score":1.0,"source_url":"https://www.rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA343/English/SOL2018/Lecture_04_4608a.html","evidence":"lecture_list_row","publisher_note":"The publisher is inferred from the edition code in this lecture's source URL, not stated by the source page. The translator IS verified for this lecture: its own source names the translator (evidence: the lecture's page, rsarchive's lecture list, or the cover of the book it was published in), and that page's text was matched against this unit (see match_score and source_url). 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When you come to examine the following things, you could later say: I'm taking notice of these things so that I can say that what referred to water in the Sacrificial Mass of the old Mysteries, has now been retained as a residue in the Baptism. How the spoken word referred outwardly to the air and inwardly to warmth, so the Transformation could accordingly refer to the earth, to what is firm, and only inwardly to water; and what had corresponded to unification, one had nothing. In the human being, one could say to oneself, the connection with the elements shifts. However, already in the Transformation to the extra-terrestrial, the earth is available, which man experiences by turning to be united with it. How can he then experience being united with the earthly?—This was the great question of the Old Mysteries. How can one somehow feel anything at all about the truly earthly?","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":163,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/343/anthroposophy_and_religion/p031","german_anchor":{"de_prefix":"anthroposophy_and_religion","de_passages":[{"locus":"GA 343/anthroposophy_and_religion/p028","url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/343/anthroposophy_and_religion/p028"}],"bead_confidence":"medium","length_check":{"de_words":165,"en_words":163,"ratio":0.99,"partial":false},"correspondence":"established","note":"English passage numbering is edition-relative, so the same number need not name the same paragraph in the German. 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Cite the translator with confidence; attribute the publisher only as probable."},"entity_parity":{"status":"ok","checked_against":["GA 343/anthroposophy_and_religion/p028"],"missing_from_translation":[],"present_only_in_translation":[],"bead_confidence":"medium","note":"Every load-bearing name in the German counterpart appears in this English passage. That is a check on NAMES only: a translation can keep every name and still reverse who acts on whom, change a number, or soften a claim. Read the German for anything you intend to rest an argument on."},"note":"quote_safe certifies the bytes of this text. This block is about the translation as a WITNESS: who made it, and whether it carries the same names as the original. See witness_completeness for how much of the original this witness holds."}},{"passage_number":32,"locus":"GA 343/anthroposophy_and_religion/p032","text":"I've even spoke about it from another point of view. One looks around and it becomes obvious that people take their inner processes for granted, but they don't find anything which they want to take up into their consciousness. Symbolic action took on unification, but on the outside the place remained empty, something was necessary, so people said to themselves, for this place to be filled, if one wanted to turn to something within the earthly element itself it could correspond to the uniting taking place in communion. People felt they could look down on the earth. What presented itself within the earth, this could be fulfilled in the communion, but something outwardly was not possible. This is how people basically felt in the Old Mysteries, when they spoke of communion. They spoke about it this way, but they felt it could not be a concluded event. We basically feel this way when are instructed according to the outer statements of the Old Mysteries, how in images the event of Golgotha was foreseen, how it was symbolically carried out, which current research always refer to when they want to show that the Mystery of Golgotha was only something which can be compared to later developments when various sacrificial acts took place in temples, by presenting a sensory image of the representative of man having died, buried and resurrected three days later. You know how the real crux of the Christ conception resulted from people noticing some similarities between the symbolic religious practices and the event of Golgotha, that they believed, even theologians believed they must speak about Christ as a myth or as something which had developed and reached fulfillment in the temples. The whole thing has now reached a point where this same way of thinking is appearing in other areas: the Our Father prayer has been examined in the same way and now nearly every sentence can be shown to have existed in pre-Christian times. This is regarded as a special catch for religious research. For someone who admits, truly admits to this way of closed thinking, it would be the same as to draw conclusions about people from their clothes. When a father allows his child to inherit his clothes, one can't say the son has become the father, because the son is someone quite different from the father even when he wears the same clothing. Just so the wording of the Our Father has passed over on to Christianity, but the content has essentially become something new. In order to examine these things, one must first look even deeper into all the connections: one needs to know the foundations from which the Old Mystery priests retained something like an expectation, which resembled something which could not yet have been accomplished on earth.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":466,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/343/anthroposophy_and_religion/p032","german_anchor":{"de_prefix":"anthroposophy_and_religion","de_passages":[{"locus":"GA 343/anthroposophy_and_religion/p029","url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/343/anthroposophy_and_religion/p029"},{"locus":"GA 343/anthroposophy_and_religion/p030","url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/343/anthroposophy_and_religion/p030"}],"bead_confidence":"medium","length_check":{"de_words":498,"en_words":466,"ratio":0.94,"partial":false},"correspondence":"established","note":"English passage numbering is edition-relative, so the same number need not name the same paragraph in the German. 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Cite the translator with confidence; attribute the publisher only as probable."},"entity_parity":{"status":"ok","checked_against":["GA 343/anthroposophy_and_religion/p029","GA 343/anthroposophy_and_religion/p030"],"missing_from_translation":[],"present_only_in_translation":[],"bead_confidence":"medium","note":"Every load-bearing name in the German counterpart appears in this English passage. That is a check on NAMES only: a translation can keep every name and still reverse who acts on whom, change a number, or soften a claim. Read the German for anything you intend to rest an argument on."},"note":"quote_safe certifies the bytes of this text. This block is about the translation as a WITNESS: who made it, and whether it carries the same names as the original. See witness_completeness for how much of the original this witness holds."}},{"passage_number":33,"locus":"GA 343/anthroposophy_and_religion/p033","text":"So there we will, I'd like to say, be led, in the first element, even through quite careful considerations, to a mood of expectation in the Old Mysteries, certainly out of an instinctive science which was completely permeated by religion, how in all Old Mysteries a Christ-expectation mood was there, and then it was fulfilled though the Mystery of Golgotha. Tomorrow we will look at the entire problem from another side, when we will enter into it more profoundly. However, you see how Anthroposophy approaches the Christ-problem in what could be called a certain scientific manner, by making a lively observation of the ether and astral bodes and also what results from their cooperation. You see, by discovering, so to speak the Christ-experience in the boundary between the astral and etheric bodies, you must arrive in a positive way to the Christ-experience. I must say to you, my dear friends, this is largely the biggest difficulty of Anthroposophy and its task in the present. You see, the somewhat washed out Theosophy which you find for instance in the Theosophical Society, finds this reference far easier. It doesn't enter into the Christ-experience but stops just before it. Therefore, it's easier. To some extent they laid down all religions as equally valid and seek within it the common human element which of course every science must be based on. Anthroposophy is determined in its own evolution, through the nerve of its entire being, to approach the Mystery of Golgotha in a positive way, and because it wants to remain scientific, to make the task of the events of Golgotha clear to humanity, as clearly as mathematics states the theory of Pythagoras. All religious confessions are in line with this rejection of the event of Golgotha as such. As a result, the world task of Anthroposophy necessary for our time is not easy. How difficult it is, I ask you to read the in words of a poet from Prague, Max Brod, who writes—he has also written some other things—in \"Paganism, Christianity, Judaism\" about how these things need to be handled; how out of the re-enlivened Jewish consciousness everything that makes Jesus into Christ must be removed, and only to keep Jesus as what does not make him into Christ. What is at the foundation of this tendency? It is the tendency to make it possible for modern Jews to have a relationship with Jesus, in which Jesus can be admitted but in which it is not necessary to see Him as the bearer of the Christ.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":424,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/343/anthroposophy_and_religion/p033","german_anchor":{"de_prefix":"anthroposophy_and_religion","de_passages":[{"locus":"GA 343/anthroposophy_and_religion/p031","url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/343/anthroposophy_and_religion/p031"},{"locus":"GA 343/anthroposophy_and_religion/p032","url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/343/anthroposophy_and_religion/p032"},{"locus":"GA 343/anthroposophy_and_religion/p033","url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/343/anthroposophy_and_religion/p033"}],"bead_confidence":"medium","length_check":{"de_words":425,"en_words":424,"ratio":1.0,"partial":false},"correspondence":"established","note":"English passage numbering is edition-relative, so the same number need not name the same paragraph in the German. 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Wie das Wort nach außen auf die Luft bezogen worden ist und innerlich auf die Wärme, so wurde die Wandlung demgemäß äußerlich auf die Erde bezogen, auf das Feste, und nur innerlich auf das Wasser; und für dasjenige, was der Vereinigung entsprach, hatte man ja nun nichts. Im Menschen, so sagte man sich, verschiebt sich der Zusammenhang mit den Elementen. Aber schon in der Wandlung ist ja für das Außerirdische die Erde vorhanden, die der Mensch erlebt, indem er sich zur Vereinigung wendet. Wie kann er also die Vereinigung mit dem Irdischen erleben? — Das war die große Frage in den alten Mysterien. Wie kann man überhaupt irgend etwas fühlen über das wahrhaft Irdische?","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":165,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/343/anthroposophy_and_religion/p028"},{"locus":"GA 343/anthroposophy_and_religion/p029","passage_number":29,"text":"Ich habe es eben von einem anderen Gesichtspunkt besprochen. Man wendete den Blick rings umher, nahm es selbstverständlich, wie man heute seine inneren Vorgänge als selbstverständlich nimmt, aber man fand nicht irgend etwas, was man aufnehmen wollte in sein Bewußtsein. Für die symbolische Handlung hatte man die Vereinigung, aber es blieb nach außen der Platz leer, es mußte erst etwas kommen, so sagte man sich, wenn dieser Platz erfüllt werden sollte, wenn man sich im Irdischen selber zu etwas wenden konnte, was der Vereinigung, der Kommunion entspricht. Man fühlte es, man konnte hinunterschen zur Erde. Was einem im Innern die Erde gab, darin konnte sich die Kommunion erfüllen, aber ein Äußeres war nicht da. So fühlte man im Grunde genommen auch in den alten Mysterien, wenn man von der Kommunion sprach. Man sprach darüber, aber man fühlte so, als ob sie durchaus nicht ein vollendetes Ereignis sein könne. Und wir fühlen im Grunde genommen das nach, wenn wir in den äußeren Mitteilungen über die alten Mysterien unterrichtet werden, wie im Bilde das Ereignis von Golgatha vorgeahnt wurde, wie es symbolisch vollzogen wurde, worauf die heutigen Forscher immer wieder deuten, indem sie darauf hinweisen wollen, als sei das Mysterium von Golgatha nur etwas, was einen späteren Entwickelungszustand darstellt gegenüber dem, was in den verschiedenen Opferhandlungen früher geübt wurde in den Tempeln, indem man das Sinnbild hinstellte, den gestorbenen Menschheitsrepräsentanten begrub und ihn nach drei Tagen auferstehen ließ.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":236,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/343/anthroposophy_and_religion/p029"},{"locus":"GA 343/anthroposophy_and_religion/p030","passage_number":30,"text":"Sie wissen, wie wirklich eine Crux in der Christus-Auffassung dadurch entstanden ist, daß man aufmerksam geworden ist auf etwas, was in den alten symbolischen Religionshandlungen dem ganzen Vorgang von Golgatha so ähnlich sah, daß die Leute geglaubt haben, selbst Theologen, sie müßten nun bloß von dem Christus als einem Mythus reden oder als von etwas, das eben entstanden ist aus dem, was früher in den Tempeln vollzogen worden ist. Das ganze hat jetzt einen Gipfelpunkt erreicht dadurch, daß dieselbe Denkweise nun auf einem anderen Gebiete hervorgetreten ist: man hat das Vaterunser [in derselben Weise] angesehen und kann nun nachweisen, daß fast jeder Satz des Vaterunsers schon in der vorchristlichen Zeit da war. Das hat man angesehen als einen ganz besonderen Fang für die moderne Religionsforschung. Für denjenigen, der erkennt, wirklich erkennt, ist diese Denkweise ein solches Schließen, wie wenn man von den Kleidern auf die Leute schließen wollte. Wenn der Vater ein Kleid anzieht und es dann auf den Sohn vererbt, so darf man daraus nicht schließen, daß der Sohn wieder der Vater ist, denn der Sohn ist etwas ganz anderes als der Vater, wenn er auch dasselbe Kleid anhat. So kann auch das Vaterunser seinem Wortlaut nach übergegangen sein auf das Christentum, seinem Inhalt nach ist es etwas wesentlich Neues geworden. Aber um diese Dinge zu durchschauen, muß man eben tiefer in die ganzen Zusammenhänge hineinsehen; man muß die Untergründe kennen, aus denen heraus im Grunde genommen für die alten Mysterienpriester etwas geblieben ist wie eine Erwartung, das ihnen erschien wie etwas, das auf der Erde noch nicht erreicht werden konnte.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":262,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/343/anthroposophy_and_religion/p030"},{"locus":"GA 343/anthroposophy_and_religion/p031","passage_number":31,"text":"Und da werden wir, ich möchte sagen, in einem ersten Elemente dazu geführt, wenn auch durch ganz behutsame Erwägungen, wie eine erwartungsvolle Stimmung in den alten Mysterien waltete, durchaus aus instinktiver Wissenschaftlichkeit, die aber ganz und gar religionsdurchtränkt war, wie in allen alten Mysterien eine Christus-Erwartungsstimmung war, die dann erfüllt worden ist durch das Mysterium von Golgatha.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":57,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/343/anthroposophy_and_religion/p031"},{"locus":"GA 343/anthroposophy_and_religion/p032","passage_number":32,"text":"Das ganze Problem müssen wir morgen noch von einer anderen Seite betrachten, wo wir dann viel tiefer in die Sache hineingeführt werden. Aber Sie sehen, daß Anthroposophie auf eine durchaus wissenschaftlich zu nennende Weise an das Christus-Problem herantritt, indem sie lebendig macht die Anschauung des Ätherleibes und des Astralleibes und wiederum dasjenige, was sich aus dem Zusammenwirken beider ergibt. Sie sehen, daß sie, indem sie gewissermaßen entdeckt das Christus-Erlebnis an der Grenze zwischen Astralleib und Ätherleib, dadurch in einer positiven Weise zum Christus-Erlebnis stehen muß. Ich muß schon zu Ihnen sagen, meine lieben Freunde, darin ruht ja zum großen Teil die ganz besondere Schwierigkeit der Anthroposophie mit ihrer Aufgabe in der Gegenwart. Sehen Sie, die etwas verwaschene Theosophie, wie sie zum Beispiel in der Theosophical Society vorliegt, hat es in dieser Beziehung viel, viel leichter. Sie geht nicht bis zu dem Christus-Erlebnis, sondern sie macht vorher halt. Daher hat sie es leichter. Sie statuiert gewissermaßen allen Religionen die gleiche Geltung und sucht darin das Allgemein-Menschliche, das natürlich jeder Wissenschaft zugrundeliegen muß.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":171,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/343/anthroposophy_and_religion/p032"},{"locus":"GA 343/anthroposophy_and_religion/p033","passage_number":33,"text":"Anthroposophie wird durch ihren eigenen Fortgang, durch den Nerv ihres ganzen Seins an das Mysterium von Golgatha in einer positiven Weise herangerückt und hat, weil sie nun wissenschaftlich bleiben will, die Aufgabe, das Ereignis von Golgatha aus wissenschaftlichen Untergründen heraus für die Menschheit geradeso klarzumachen, wie die Mathematik den pythagoreischen Lehrsatz klarzumachen hat. Dem stehen alle diejenigen Religionsbekenntnisse entgegen, die das Ereignis von Golgatha als solches abweisen. Die Weltenaufgabe der Anthroposophie, die aber notwendig ist in unserer Zeit, ist daher nicht ganz leicht. Wie schwierig sie ist, das entnehmen Sie bitte aus einer Schrift, die eben erschienen ist von einem Prager Dichter, Max Brod - er hat auch manches andere geschrieben — «Heidentum, Christentum, Judentum», in welcher auch diese Dinge behandelt werden und wo aus dem wiederauflebenden jüdischen Bewußtsein heraus alles dasjenige von Jesus weggenommen wird, was ihn zum Christus macht, um nur dasjenige zu behalten, was den Jesus nicht zum Christus macht. Und was ist die Tendenz, die hier zugrundeliegt? Das ist die Tendenz, es dem modernen Juden möglich zu machen, ein Verhältnis zu dem Jesus zu gewinnen, durch welches er den Jesus zugeben kann, aber nicht genötigt ist, ihn als den Träger des Christus anzusehen.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":197,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/343/anthroposophy_and_religion/p033"}],"beads":[{"from":[31],"to":[28],"confidence":"medium"},{"from":[32],"to":[29,30],"confidence":"medium"},{"from":[33],"to":[31,32,33],"confidence":"medium"}],"note":"Paired by the paragraph aligner; each language numbers its own paragraphs. A bead at either end of the span can carry text beyond it (the `from` numbers show what each bead covers)."}}