{"corpus":"steiner","locus":"GA 73a/1921-01-12/p036","lang":"en","edition":"English","edition_basis":null,"is_original":false,"is_default_edition":true,"text":"It is interesting – I have already pointed this out in the book 'Von Seelenrätseln' – to examine the musical experience under these conditions. Anyone who has ever studied the analysis of the musical experience will know how much of this musical experience is thoroughly emotional, but how this emotionality must be related to the life of the imagination. Otherwise we could not bring differentiated melody into the musical experience; we could not even have the individual tone in its objective grasp if the imaginative experience did not come together in some way with the emotional experience in the overall musical experience. But it is emphasized again and again, and rightly so, that the main thing in the musical experience is the emotional experience. And people like Eduard Hanslik, in his book 'On Musical Beauty', go too far when they want to eliminate the emotional experience altogether and see the musical more or less only in the experience of tonal arabesques. But this musical experience must be analyzed further. Then we come to relate this musical experience, which in objectivity corresponds to something rhythmic and related to rhythm, to that which, so to speak, runs musically within us: to the processes of our rhythmic system. One can now follow in a complete way how, through the inhalation process, the cerebral fluid is pushed through the spinal canal towards the brain, how it, as it were, bumps into the brain and how it in turn swings down during the exhalation process. One can follow how the rhythm is now also modified by the modification of the breathing process in this ascending and descending cerebral fluid. And if we approach this view with the same objectivity as we do other objective views of the external world, we will come to examine how, for example, the breathing experience is modified in song. We will find something that is expressed in song as a musical experience in the breathing experience; we will find the breathing experience in the oscillating brain water. We shall then recognize the union of this rhythmic process in the human organism with the nerve-sense process in the brain, and thus recognize the interaction of the rhythmic system and the nerve-sense system. And then we shall be able to separate what corresponds to the emotional experience, which in the human organism is entirely the rhythmic system.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"title":"12. The Relationships Between Spiritual Science and Individual Academic Subjects II","site_heading":null,"date":"1921-01-12","location":null,"word_count":395,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/73a/1921-01-12/p036","alignment_confidence":"high","alignment_reason":"beads:identity","two_voice_volume":false,"translation_credit":{"scope":"unit","status":"established","translator":"Steiner Online Library","identified_edition":"SOL2024","book_title":"Scientific Disciplines and Anthroposophy","publisher":"Steiner Online Library","publisher_inferred":true,"match_score":1.0,"source_url":"https://www.rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA073a/English/SOL2024/19210112p01.html","evidence":"lecture_page_line","publisher_note":"The publisher is inferred from the edition code in this lecture's source URL, not stated by the source page. The translator IS verified for this lecture: its own source names the translator (evidence: the lecture's page, rsarchive's lecture list, or the cover of the book it was published in), and that page's text was matched against this unit (see match_score and source_url). Cite the translator with confidence; attribute the publisher only as probable."},"edition_coverage":{"de":["original"],"en":["English"]},"available_versions":[{"lang":"de","edition":"original","edition_basis":null,"is_original":true,"is_default_edition":true,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/73a/1921-01-12/p036"},{"lang":"en","edition":"English","edition_basis":null,"is_original":false,"is_default_edition":true,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/en/ga/73a/1921-01-12/p036","paragraph_aligned":true}],"record":{"record_type":"unknown","scope":"volume","note":"How this text was taken down (shorthand transcript, listeners' notes or manuscript) is not on record here. Unknown is not an assurance of a stenogram: check the edition's own notes before resting an argument on one word.","evidence":null,"evidence_translation":null,"evidence_source":null},"paired_german":{"status":"paired","german":[{"locus":"GA 73a/1921-01-12/p036","passage_number":36,"text":"Es ist interessant - ich habe schon aufmerksam gemacht darauf in dem Buche «Von Seelenrätseln» -, einmal das musikalische Erlebnis unter diesen Voraussetzungen zu prüfen. Wer sich einmal befaßt hat mit der Analyse des musikalischen Erlebnisses, der wird wissen, wieviel in diesem musikalischen Erlebnis durchaus Gefühlsmäßiges drinnensteckt, wie aber doch dieses Gefühlsmäßige in einer gewissen Beziehung zum Vorstellungsleben stehen muß. Wir könnten sonst in das musikalische Erlebnis nicht die differenzierte Melodie hereinbringen; wir könnten nicht einmal den einzelnen Ton in seiner objektiven Erfassung drinnen haben, wenn nicht in irgendeiner Weise das Vorstellungserlebnis mit dem Gefühlserlebnis im musikalischen Gesamterlebnis zusammenkämen. Aber immer wieder, und zwar mit Recht, wird betont, das Hauptsächliche beim musikalischen Erlebnis ist das Gefühlserlebnis. Und solche Leute wie Eduard Hanslik in seinem Buche «Vom musikalisch Schönen», sie gehen zu weit, wenn sie das Gefühlserlebnis ganz ausschalten wollen und das Musikalische mehr oder weniger nur in einem Erleben von Tonarabesken sehen wollen. Aber es muß dieses musikalische Erlebnis weiter analysiert werden. Dann kommen wir dazu, dieses musikalische Erlebnis, dem ja in der Objektivität durchaus Rhythmisches und mit Rhythmischem Verwandtes entspricht, in Zusammenhang zu bringen mit demjenigen, was in uns selber gewissermaßen musikalisch verläuft: mit den Vorgängen unseres rhythmischen Systems. Man kann nun in einer restlosen Weise verfolgen, wie durch den Einatmungsprozeß das Gehirnwasser durch den Rückenmarkkanal nach dem Gehirn hingedrängt wird, wie es gewissermaßen anstößt an das Gehirn und wie es wiederum herunterschwingt bei dem Ausatmungsprozeß. Man kann verfolgen, wie nun durch die Modifikation des Atmungsprozesses auch der Rhythmus modifiziert wird in diesem auf- und absteigenden Gehirnwasser. Und man wird, wenn man dieser Anschauung nur mit derselben Objektivität zu Leibe geht wie anderen objektiven Anschauungen der Außenwelt, dazu kommen zu prüfen, wie zum Beispiel das Atmungserlebnis sich modifiziert im Gesang. Man wird irgend etwas, was sich im Gesang als musikalisches Erlebnis ausspricht, im Atmungserlebnis wiederfinden; das Atmungserlebnis wird man im schwingenden Gehirnwasser wiederfinden. Man wird dann den Zusammenschluß dieses rhythmischen Vorgangs im menschlichen Organismus mit dem Nerven-Sinnesvorgang im Gehirn erkennen und wird so die Wechselwirkung des rhythmischen Systems und des Nerven-Sinnessystems erkennen. Und man wird dann sondern können dasjenige, was entspricht dem Gefühlserlebnis, was im menschlichen Organismus durchaus das rhythmische System ist.","text_trust":"verbatim","quote_safe":true,"word_count":363,"url":"https://anthroposophy.ai/v1/steiner/de/ga/73a/1921-01-12/p036"}],"english":["GA 73a/1921-01-12/p036"],"method":"identity","confidence":"high","correspondence":"established","length_check":{"de_words":363,"en_words":395,"ratio":1.09,"partial":false},"pairing_state":"verified","verified":true,"evidence":["length","meaning","anchors","audit"]},"witness_completeness":{"ratio":1.05,"band":"comparable","note":null,"word_count":7170,"original_word_count":6799,"may_be_abridged":false},"witness_quality":{"translator":{"scope":"unit","status":"recorded","translator":"Steiner Online Library","identified_edition":"SOL2024","book_title":"Scientific Disciplines and Anthroposophy","publisher":"Steiner Online Library","publisher_inferred":true,"match_score":1.0,"source_url":"https://www.rsarchive.org/Lectures/GA073a/English/SOL2024/19210112p01.html","evidence":"lecture_page_line","publisher_note":"The publisher is inferred from the edition code in this lecture's source URL, not stated by the source page. 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